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-   -   Full Sensor Dream Lenses (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jvc-4kcam-pro-handheld-camcorders/532257-full-sensor-dream-lenses.html)

B.J. Adams July 15th, 2016 01:02 AM

Full Sensor Dream Lenses
Any suggestions for lenses that cover the full sensor?

Maybe something with small f stop for low light situations & a zoom to film birds from a distance

Is it possible for an EF lens to cover the whole 35mm sensor, or is this just a dream of mine?! I would prefer getting an adapter and buying an EF lens, so that I can eventually use them with Canon DSLRs in the future.
Do adapters have lens Image Stabilization that actually works?

Any suggestions are much appreciated

Duncan Craig July 15th, 2016 10:14 AM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
Any and all Canon EF lenses will cover the LS300 sensor which is only APS/S35 sized.
Stabilisation requires a 'smart' adaptor like a Metabones, where you can also choose a Speedbooster version.

I'm fairly sure the Aputure adaptors won't work because of the ND wheel on the JVC.

If you want a good quality specialist nature lens you'll probably have to shell out and buy a proper lens for the job and they are not cheap. You can try old broadcast lenses with multipliers and then crop the sensor, but you might not like the results.

Personally I use the Panasonic 12-35 and 35-100, 5x Samyang T1.5 primes, a Sigma 24-70 f2.8 and Tokina 11-16 t2.8. I shot six testimonials for a cookery infomercial on Wednesday using just the 35mm with a bit of VSM. The 135mm has only been used once so far, but it was a great shot and looked lovely.

B.J. Adams July 15th, 2016 01:37 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
Much useful info.
Keep them coming :)

Steve Rosen July 17th, 2016 03:02 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
This thread is titled dream lenses, and in the case of zooms, there's nothing out there, particularly the EFs (I have the 24-105 and the 17-55). I use the Olympus 12-40 and the Lumix 35-100 regularly - which don't fully cover the sensor, but that's okay because you can dial them in and use the VSM to make them more useful. However I detest the aperture control and squirrelly focus on all these lenses.

To me a dream lens for a cinema camera is manual focus and manual iris. My favorite lens shooting 16 was the Angenieux 9,5-57 - it was small, light and relatively sharp - but didn't cover S16 unfortunately, so I sold it in the late 80's and bought a Cooke 10.4-52 - a big, heavy lens with flare issues.

I'd love to see a manual zoom lens in that focal range with manual controls and built with the new technology - i.e. lighter and sharper - that would cover S35 - or at least MFT or S16 - and not cost 30 grand.

Won't happen I know, but it's still my dream.

BTW, I know about Canon's new "low cost" zooms - but T4.4? Really?

Lee Powell July 17th, 2016 03:39 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
With the LS300, there are two subtle aspects of lens performance that aren't apparent when using those lenses on Panasonic cameras.

First is Panasonic's in-camera lens distortion correction, and the artificial sharpening it uses to tighten up the corners of the frame. Thankfully, JVC does not attempt to duplicate this covert image manipulation, and you can see what the glass actually delivers. Except for some of the Leica's, Panasonic zooms are not very sharp in the corners, though it doesn't really show in J-Log1 footage at 1080p. But at 4K resolution, a genuinely sharp lens can make a perceptible difference in your footage.

The other factor is the incomparable utility of the 0.7X Speedbooster on the LS300. To use this at 100% VSM, a wide-angle lens needs a bit more sensor coverage than full frame. The Rokinon T1.5 35mm and 85mm do make the grade without vignetting, but I'm not sure about the 24mm. The otherwise fabulous Tamron 24-70mm f2.8 in Nikon mount can't quite cover the sensor at 24mm with the 0.7 Speedbooster.

B.J. Adams July 17th, 2016 03:45 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
Very useful info Lee. thanks

Steve Rosen July 17th, 2016 05:30 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
I no longer have the Panasonic 12-35, I sold it and got the Olympus 12-40. The Olympus seems quite sharp to the corner,s even in 4K (although I've only used it for about 5 or 6 shots in 4K).

Now, the resident advice here is that when shooting 4K you should set the VSM at the 4K setting, rather than use the whole sensor.

But before I learned that, I had made a short for a client with the Rokinon Cine primes (and those few shots with the Olympus) using the full sensor and didn't have any distracting vignetting - it may be there but it didn't jump out if it was (a year ago, quick job)... I used (I think) the 12, 24, 35, 50 (a Leica-R Summicron) and 85 for that project.

William Hohauser July 18th, 2016 01:28 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
The Panasonic 20mm works great but vignettes at full sensor. Only saw that after the shoot.

B.J. Adams July 18th, 2016 01:55 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
From what I have ready around, I think all MFT lenses do vignette.
Can someone confirm?

It's a pity as I have seen some nice Olympus lenses with a very good price range

Luke Miller July 19th, 2016 08:41 AM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
My favorite lenses on the LS300 are my Nikkor manual focus primes from my film cameras. They more than cover the full sensor, so any weakness in the corners is cropped out. I also use the Panasonic 12-35 f2.8 zoom when I need stabilization. With it I set VSM to 86%. At that setting there is a slight bit of vignetting, but I don't find it particularly noticeable. The JVC recommended VSM setting for MFT lenses is 80%, which seems to eliminate the mild vignette.

Steve Rosen July 19th, 2016 04:20 PM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
I think it's important for intended purchasers to understand that the whole idea of the LS300 - which I think is brilliant - is for the camera to be set up so that you can use almost any lens ever made, from std16 to vintage still lenses (in my case, Leica-R and Canon FD).

However, in order to do that, you need to dial in the VSM feature of the sensor so that the particular lens appears to cover the full frame. There is no down side to doing this, at least when shooting 1080 or 2K. I have shot footage using my Olympus 12-40, with the VSM set at, as said above, 86% and intercut it seamlessly with footage from the Pocket Camera using the same lens.

Shooting 4K is more limiting, but even then almost all MFT lenses will work without vignetting when the VSM is set at the recommended 4K setting (it tells you in the menu when you're selecting). All cine intended lenses, like the Rokinons or Zeiss primes or Canon EF zooms, will cover at 100%.

But what makes the concept so cool is that, since introducing the Prime Zoom feature shortly after the birth of the camera, when shooting 1080 or 2K you can zoom in from the highest chosen setting to the maximum crop, which is 46% (it might have been upped to 43%).

This makes the camera uniquely versatile in my opinion - and it is my opinion because 4K doesn't look traditionally filmic to me anyway (I shot 16, S16 and 35 for nearly 40 years) and I'm not bowled over by the sometimes annoying fad of extremely shallow depth of field.

With an S16 lens, like my 70's era Angenieux 15-150, I can shoot a head and shoulders at 60mm-80mm at T4 with a pleasing separation of the subject from the background. That's why I love using my Pocket Cameras and my D16 - and I can do that on the LS300 too (although it isn't pafocal on the JVC for some reason I have yet to discover).

B.J. Adams July 20th, 2016 12:45 AM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
Very interesting concept Steve.

But for someone like me, who wants to buy 2 or 3 lenses, I want to try to get full frame lenses, if the price is somewhat acceptable.

If you already have a collection of lenses, then all well at good :)

Duncan Craig July 20th, 2016 04:23 AM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
Perhaps you shouldn't use the phrase 'Full Frame' in the context of the LS300, better perhaps to say 'Full Sensor'.

Most would use the FF phrase when referring to a full size 35mm sensor like the Nikon D800 or Canon 5D. In that context a full frame lens is a very different proposition. The JVC has a S35/APS sized sensor.

Seriously. I think you should start by buying two native MFT lenses the 12-35 and 35-100.
A lot of the time these lenses DO cover the entire JVC sensor, and they will cover a huge range of filming scenarios. They are roughly 24mm-200mm FF equivalent and fixed f2.8!

Both lenses have stabilisation, are very lightweight and compact, have reasonable manual focus (which works in the same direction and Rokinons/Samyang) and they are very cheap. I got mine for 450 and 515 each.

If you like I'll shoot a full sensor test video of each lens for you.

B.J. Adams July 20th, 2016 04:28 AM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses
Can you post makers of these lenses you suggest so I can look them up?

I really appreciate your help & suggestions

Duncan Craig July 20th, 2016 04:34 AM

Re: Full Sensor Dream Lenses

You can find them online much cheaper, mine were genuine UK stock & delivered from within the UK.

You should also look at the 12-40mm Oly as mentioned above.

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