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JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
All about the original single-CCD HDV camcorders from JVC.


 
 
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Old June 4th, 2003, 04:52 AM   #1
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We started to ship the other day.

I work for JVC.

There are of course various questions about this product.

It began to ship the other day, the first 30 pieces had airshipped and those were then shipped to dealers. The next couple hundred are on a boat and they too will go to fill backorders.

I shot with one of these production units (#19) and it does take getting used to. And it did give a higher definition resolution in the image. I should have used a tripod, I think steady support will be more important with this camera than with SD, even with OIS. Admittedly I am a shoulder shooter by preference.

Also the output of this camera is going to look better on better display devices. While this may seem like a silly thing to say, it is HD and if the display device isn't HD the images won't look the same.

We have it here on the 50inch plasma and it looks fine. On the 42inch (which is not 720 lines) it doesn't look quite as good. But this is to be expected.

So time will tell. My own opinion hasn't changed, this is a usable tool for certain people. So you really need to demo one first at a dealer with a "REAL" HD display to judge it. We are at this time trying to strongly encourage dealers to have an HD display device. And no this doesn't mean a consumer-level supposedly HD TV.

BTW, I always ID myself as working for JVC, but in case you missed it in the name, I work for JVC. I have never posted anywhere with a different name.
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Old June 4th, 2003, 05:06 AM   #2
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Ken

Your presence here is greatly appreciated! Many thanks for the update,
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Old June 4th, 2003, 12:09 PM   #3
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Ken,

Are you talking about the GR-HD1 or the JY-HD10?
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Old June 4th, 2003, 01:46 PM   #4
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So Ken...any chance that they'll make a 25p or 24p version?
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Old June 4th, 2003, 06:53 PM   #5
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JY-HD10U

I refer to the JY-HD10U unit since I work in the pro group.

While I do not run JVC or set its policy, I do not expect a 24p model at all. I realize some have their hearts set on making their dream movie on HD and converting to 35mm but at JVC we just don't have the resources to be everything to everyone like our friends at Panasonic and Sony.

And frankly we don't see a future in film and digital cinema is 30p. Our work in that area is D-VHS and DILA which have already had a tremendous impact on Hollywood.

Please understand this is not a call for the same old 24p discussion, I'm just telling it like will be. Same as MPEG2. The future isn't any of the formats like DV or any of the others, it is MPEG2 data. There won't be formats on VCRs, nor film on reels, just data on disk drives. And that is 30p.

I suspect there has to be a PAL unit but I don't know that either. I just think there has to be.
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Old June 4th, 2003, 07:54 PM   #6
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Re: We started to ship the other day.

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Freed JVC : I work for JVC.

I should have used a tripod, I think steady support will be more important with this camera than with SD, even with OIS.

++++++++

So you really need to demo one first at a dealer with a "REAL" HD display to judge it. We are at this time trying to strongly encourage dealers to have an HD display device. And no this doesn't mean a consumer-level supposedly HD TV.

-->>>

As Ken points out -- the MTV shakicam look does not look good when seen widescreen on a big screen. That's why movie maker's used to be very skilled at carrying a camera, and today, Steadicam is used so much. HD may bring back tripods. :)

About the monitor. The point is that 720p60 will look best on a display that has a native 16:9 AR with 1280x720 pixels. Where can you find these?

I'm not going to get near "what's a REAL HDTV!" When you buy an RPTV you get what you pay for. However, most -- even HD's with 7-inch CRTs -- can display the measured HD resolution of the HD10!

Fixed structure devices are different.

Obviously, 480-line plasmas will lose vertical resolution. (Plus, most plasmas have terrible noise problems.)

XGA and DLP projectors have the right vertical resolution, but are not 16:9, so the effective vertical resolution is reduced to get the right AR. (The H rez is adequate.)

So that leaves those wonderful Mustang DLP projectors and the top of line SXGA LCD projectors.

Bottom-line, people watch HD on all sorts of "HD" displays and enjoy it. We know it would look better if we had a $15,000 projector. (But, then we would argue about which one!)

The point is not to judge a camera through a cheap display!

If most of the HD you produce will be seen on top-end plasmas/projectors, try the camera with these. If you most of it will be seen on ordinary HDTVs, there's nothing wrong with viewing it this way.
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Old June 4th, 2003, 09:24 PM   #7
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Slightly (well...) O.T.

I would also like to thank Ken for contributing. It is refreshing to hear input from someone at JVC rather than just more speculation from the rest of us.

I wonder Ken if you know of any way to contact (email) a JVC camcorder engineer with questions about JVC camcorder functions - (not particularly the HD unit - consumer cams etc.) . Down here in Oz our tech support is well... wanting - and if you have a 'function' question - i.e. not fault related, it is dismissed outright. I'd like to talk to someone who knows how the cameras work internally and not just the standard "...Um, that's a camcorder right? Let me just get the manual..." response to a call or mail.

You might know you might not. Thanks again for your contributions here.

Best,

David.
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Old June 5th, 2003, 05:29 AM   #8
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Steve--Now that the camera's shipping, will your book be coming out soon? I'm hoping you can give us specific suggestions for products to purchase as well. This discussion on monitors is a good example. Products that will be forward-looking and won't be obsolete in one year! If we're going to make the plunge into the brand new world of economical HD production, please get us started on the right foot.
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Old June 5th, 2003, 05:30 AM   #9
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If youre saying you recommend at least a pro level HDTV device to view its footage then I believe the camera is not that good. What successful camera (pro or consumer) ever needed a good display to show its strong points? If you're banking on required equipment everyone's suppose to have, then you're kidding yourself. I've seen great downconverted HD video on my crappy 20 year old Commodore Monitor. If your camera can't display well on a $3000 sony XBR properly then it aint good in my opinion.
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Old June 5th, 2003, 05:47 AM   #10
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Yang,

you echoed exactly what I was thinking...if the majority of people (including those with 'cheap' HDTVs) can't see a good picture from it, it's of pretty limited value to say the least.
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Old June 5th, 2003, 07:03 AM   #11
 
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AT LAST!!!! The voice of reason...and it comes from JVC itself. 24p is a thing of the past. Long live 30p.
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Old June 5th, 2003, 08:45 AM   #12
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Re: Re: We started to ship the other day.

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen: As Ken points out -- the MTV shakicam look does not look good when seen widescreen on a big screen -->>>

Somebody should have told Soderberg about this before he released "Full Frontal" ;-)
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Old June 5th, 2003, 09:05 AM   #13
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24p is a thing of the past.? Man I thouhgt JVC was a little out to lunch... but damn!
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Old June 5th, 2003, 09:38 AM   #14
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If anyone gets a chance to see the JVC footage on an Apple 23" Cinema Display (HD) then please post their observations here....I'm sure people here would like to hear the verdict.
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Old June 5th, 2003, 09:45 PM   #15
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<<<-- Originally posted by Nigel Moore : Yang, you echoed exactly what I was thinking...if the majority of people (including those with 'cheap' HDTVs) can't see a good picture from it, it's of pretty limited value to say the least. -->>>

I think I already explained what Ken hopefully ment to say. (And, certainly what JVC's position is.) To get MAXIMUM pix quality use a progressive display with at least 1280x720 rez. These devices are very expensive -- hence his comment about cheap HDTVs.

But this is a good time to say that I suspect there is not a lot of understanding about plasmas, plus LCD and DLP projectors amongst NTSC video folks. (In fact, perhaps not about rear-projection HDTV.)

Like Ken, I fear we will see folks connecting the camcorder to an uncalibrated interlaced HDTV at Sears and saying it doesn't look great.

Also, an LCD RGB computer monitor, even Apple's, very likely does not color-space or gamma match an HD display. (Nor an NTSC display. That's why folks don't color correct using their RGB monitor!)

By the way, a SMPTE-C phosphor monitor does not display the HD color-space either. So that's not the way to judge HD color accuracy.

In short, you'll need calibrated high-quality HD tools (your NTSC vectorscope is not valid for HD) to make judgements.

For viewing, use whatever you've got.
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