Hd1u/10 Issue Or User Error- Read This Reppost From Avs Board at DVinfo.net

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All about the original single-CCD HDV camcorders from JVC.

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Old June 20th, 2003, 02:47 PM   #1
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Hd1u/10 Issue Or User Error- Read This Reppost From Avs Board

This is a repost of an issue some are saying the JVC HD cam is having! I ask you since a lot of people on the AVS board are more consumers and are not aware that the 7 second rule pretty much applies to 30P as it does with 24P( even though there are no rules really) on panning. So read the post below and see if this is the case. I have yet to see footage on a real HD TV. So I can't comment on this. I do know that the same complaints have been said about the DVX100, Cinalta,Varicam and the XL1 frame mode, but this was user error not knowing to not whip pan or having to fast a shutter speed as well.

Michael Pappas

---------------------------READ THIS REPPOST BELOW------------------------------

Ken Ross
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Update: Frank, I tried both shutter speeds (1/30 & 1/60) and both were pretty bad. So, here's the update: Went to the Videomaker Show at the Meadowlands in New Jersey today. Present was JVC and their booth, complete with 2 or 3 HD1s. Also present was B&H Photo with one HD1 on display.

I first went to the B&H booth and asked them why the motion was stuttering as the camera panned. The salesguy asked their tech guy to come over and his response was "we've been trying to figure that out as well".

My next stop was the source, JVC. Well, I was very happy with their candor and total absence of B.S. The reps said they've been hearing this complaint all the time from both purchasers and people stopping by the booth. They said it was inherent in the camera (something to do with the scan rate of the image sensor). We played with their cameras, even looked at the demo loop they were running and the problem was obvious on virtually everything. I will say with most of the demo footage the problem wasn't obvious, but for a very good reason. There was little to no movement in most of the scenes, and those with movement were shot in slow motion which tended to mask the problem. The JVC reps weren't even aware of the slow motion until we pointed it out to them. We showed them scenes of waterfalls and how S-L-O-W-L-Y the water was breaking over the rocks....defying gravity in a sense. The jitter became obvious on the demo loop when there were vertical pans (there was only one of these I recall). So the demo loop was cleverly put together to mask the problem either intentionally or unintentionally.

The bottom line is that JVC was very candid, there is no fix for this issue since it's inherent in the design and JVC is looking for feedback for the next model. They take this criticism very seriously and it does go back to engineering in Japan. In fact, there was a Japanese engineer there yesterday looking for feedback from the reps based on what they've heard from people stopping by.

With that said, if you can deal with the jitter, the picture can still be very nice, far sharper than any other format with color approaching 3 chip color outdoors. One other caveat for those used to 3 chip cameras, this cameras dynamic range is not that of 3 chip models. There were instances in my shooting (as well as JVCs own demo loop) in which highlights (e.g. people's foreheads) were flared out. The reps weren't aware of this issue until I pointed it out to them. I actually could have lived with that issue and compensated for it (although zebra stripes would have made it easier), but the jitter for me was the deal break.
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Old June 20th, 2003, 02:51 PM   #2
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Hmmm, I never heard about this problem with the DVX100 in 30p mode.
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Old June 20th, 2003, 06:20 PM   #3
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This is news to me, too. I haven't heard about it at all in the HD/SD/DV 24/30P cameras...

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Old June 21st, 2003, 02:14 AM   #4
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99% of video folks have never shot film, 24p, or 30p. They don't know how to shoot low frame-rate material.

Likely they have no idea what 30p is.

Moreover, they think its a bug when they see it.

Worse is JVC's not being able to explain it!

Although Pana's reps in several shows I attended were TOTALLY lost. I mean they didn't understand the DVX100 in any way. And customers went away hating the strobing.

Having said this -- even if one understands, one may not want to shoot video like film. (I suspect the whip pans will drive the audience to sickness when projected to 8 feet. They just don't know it yet!)

Putting it bluntly -- one does not pan or zoom HD -- except to follow action or for effect.

Or, one may not like the look of 24p/30p -- period.

Wait till they get this home and try editing MPEG-2 TS without the slightest idea of what MPEG-2 TS is!

I met with Apple FCP 4 folks today. They are still claiming MPEG-2 editing isn't supported!

Of course, they were surprised when I showed them DVHScap and it listed the HD1 had been tested.

On the other hand, I got the strong sense that JVC cam support is coming. But they want to do it right -- even if it means noone edits on a Mac for a year.
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