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JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
All about the original single-CCD HDV camcorders from JVC.


 
 
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Old July 4th, 2003, 12:44 PM   #16
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well, the exposure is locked, and as far as i can tell. locking the exposure locks the iris too (i could be wrong), but ive pointed it right into bright lights and then into dark spots and there is no change.....and whenever i switch back to set the iris its at 2.0, which is the default i believe.....but i really dont know for sure, more testing needs to be done.
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Old July 4th, 2003, 01:03 PM   #17
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<<<-- Originally posted by Joe Russ : well, the exposure is locked, and as far as i can tell. locking the exposure locks the iris too (i could be wrong), but ive pointed it right into bright lights and then into dark spots and there is no change.....and whenever i switch back to set the iris its at 2.0, which is the default i believe.....but i really dont know for sure, more testing needs to be done. -->>>

How do I lock the exposure?

Also, I will be shooting the fireworks tonight, just to see how they look. I'll follow your guide you posted.

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Old July 4th, 2003, 01:20 PM   #18
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Re: Auto iris nightmare

Heath, this could be a very important piece of info in regard to what your friend heard. Now can your friend be reliable when it comes to info like this? Info like this does not manifest all on it's own, so where did he hear this?

It's very possible this is the case. JVC has come out with a starter level MiniDV HD camera that is from the pro division. Now the consumer version they don't need to worry about since that's consumer. But channel the HD10U thru the pro path and it better at least have manual exposure control at the very least. So maybe this was a major screw up that JVC wants to fix before they have shipped to many. Not many have reached the shores, so they could easily do this modify and move on.

In my opinion JVC could have something here, but when something's from the pro division at least bring it to that level. Don't repackage the same camera with a beachtech like adapter and call it pro. They at least upped the res on the VF to a base level 180k. So if they could make this kind of change, then it was possible to make the camera have controls of a beginning level pro camera.

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<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : I posted elsewhere that my buddy heard JVC stopped shipping HD10s to re-do the controls. I am now fed up, myself, and being a non-techie, I can't figure out how in the heck to get around the auto iris.

Paul, Joe, Steve, any ideas? If I can't figure it out by Monday, I call JVC and get some answeres. If all else fails, the camera goes back and I buy either an alleged "fixed" HD10 or a DVX100 and wait a while for a new mini-HD.

heath -->>>
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Old July 4th, 2003, 03:37 PM   #19
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My friend is VERY reliable, but Chris Hurd is right--we'll keep it as a rumor until Ken Freed emails me back Monday (or whenever). If you ask me, this is the HD1 with the Beachtek-like adaptor on it. Then again, I have yet to use the HD1.

If I can't get a good answer, or a good solution, the camera goes back.

From Ken Freed (via Paul Mogg):

"The S/A sets auto exposure priority. If you set a shutter value the camera will auto exposure using the iris.

If you set iris the camera alters shutter.

The manual control you desire is not on this unit. (ARRRRRRRRGH!)

The AGC is the automatic use of the camera's whopping 6dB of gain to keep the image brighter. It does show grain in the image."

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Old July 5th, 2003, 12:19 PM   #20
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My HD1 and HD10

I for one am going to make these cams work .... Auto Iris issues or not.

If there are flaws and they are eventually corrected, I'm sure JVC will stand behind the upgrades. ?



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Old July 5th, 2003, 12:45 PM   #21
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If JVC reworks the camera including the chassis then we're in for a really long wait. If changes are limited to firmware, which I'd imagine would be the case, then hopefully all cameras would be upgradable. If this rumor is true I view it as good news for everyone.

I've read conflicting information on the HD10 viewfinder. Can anyone verify with certainty that the HD10 viewfinder is improved over the HD1? I'd be really surprised if it wasn't the same.
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Old July 5th, 2003, 02:29 PM   #22
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it is, but its pretty bad in the one i have.....i just use the lcd anyway.....its more "accurate"...you know yer in focus on something when the edges stair step because the resolution of the viewfinder is so much less then the actual res (hd anyway) and with the oversharpening you get nice stair step over focusing on the in focus areas. in a backwards way it makes it easier (for me anyway) to focus.

im considering tradomg up for a dvx100.....the chroma and luma noise on the camera is starting to bother me......its huge....and leaves little lattitude to adjust saturation and color balances before it rears its ugly smudgy head.....
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Old July 5th, 2003, 02:48 PM   #23
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My HD1 viewfinder is not good, but I would expect a 180K viewfinder in that size to be pretty good. If the claim is that the HD10 viewfinder is bad, I'd have to believe it's the same as the HD1.

In my application the camera will be housed, so I get the VF plus and external NTSC monitor. The flipout cannot be used so it's worthwhile for me to have the better VF if it exists.

Anyone else annoyed that the camera won't respond to a single control once it switches into power-save? You have to close-then-open the screen or VF to reactivate. Neither of those things are possible inside a housing so all that's left is the power switch. Anyone also notice that closing the VF screws up the diopter adjustment? How come operating any control other than REC won't reset the sleep timeout? It's mistakes like these that make it seem like JVC's never made a camcorder before.
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Old July 6th, 2003, 06:43 PM   #24
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Quick Note:

The JVC controls exposure using the shutter-speed. The shutter-speed can vary CONTINUOUSLY between 1/15th and 1/250th (It seems to stay under 1/250th using an 8X ND -- which I recommend). There is no DEFAULT shutter-speed!

It does NOT work as most of us expect or want -- although it works like most consumer camcorders. And, like the VX2000/PD150 when you don't turn AUTO-SHUTTER OFF.

Think of it as a "Speed Mastered and Aperature Slaved" AE. The shutter-speed adjustment is very fast -- possibly adjusting frame-by-frame to achieve very solid exposure control.

Because a lookup table is used for AE, the aperature will always be as open as possible -- given the current speed. (Thus it is biased to minimum DOF.)

Unfortunately, for a low 30FPS camcorder this operation is the OPPOSITE of what is needed. We need all exposure control via the iris.

One way to prevent swings in shutter-speed is to SET shutter-speed. (Press S/A once and set.) Now you are in Shutter Priority mode with all exposure done automatically and via the iris.

Thankfully, the AE is very accurate at setting exposures for you. It's hard to get a bad pix. However, it needs lots of light and it can't handle small very bright highlights.

So YOU must take active control of light during shooting. Add more and/or reduce contrast. If you can't or won't take control of the light in a scene:

* forget the camera.

* Get used to a more complicated way of setting exposure. More to come on this.
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Old July 6th, 2003, 06:54 PM   #25
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So YOU must take active control of light during shooting. Add more and/or reduce contrast. If you can't or won't take control of the light in a scene:

* forget the camera.

* Get used to a more complicated way of setting exposure. More to come on this.

Okay, makes sense. Even in DV mode, this does this? I don't think shooting a wedding will be good if I can't control the iris. Did you find a way to turn it off?

I'm making a movie, I light the scene, I have an actor walk from behind the camera. Will the iris freak out??? Will it adjust when the actor walks in front of the camera, where it may not be lit?

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Old July 6th, 2003, 09:03 PM   #26
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<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight I'm making a movie, I light the scene, I have an actor walk from behind the camera. -->>>

OK -- here's Part 2.

1) Light your scene.

2) Press SA once -- note the speed.

3) Press SA again and note F stop.

4) Press SA again.

5) Repeat 1 thru 4 until there is no change to either value.

The speed should be 1/60th at about F2.8 or F5.6. If faster than 1/60th -- reduce light or use ND. If slower than 1/60th -- add light if possible. (Even with AGC ON, indoors you may have to live with 1/30th.)

As you adjust light, repeat steps 1 through 5. You are using the camera as a crude light meter. REMEMBER, speed will change much faster than iris!

Once you have verified your exposure is OK, press the EC dial once. Then press and hold until the L appears.

Now both speed and iris are locked.
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Old July 6th, 2003, 09:12 PM   #27
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<<<-- Originally posted by Craig Jones : If changes are limited to firmware, which I'd imagine would be the case, then hopefully all cameras would be upgradable. If this rumor is true I view it as good news for everyone. -->

I'd be happy if the firmware could be modified to act at the same time as the shutter was locked. Interestingly a JVC teckie wondered aloud to me WHY that wasn't possible. But, after the pro group worked so long on tweeking the image -- it would seem IF IT WERE POSSIBLE they would have already asked for it from Japan. Unless they didn't realize the need before the protests began.

I wouldn't count on an upgrade.

<-- I've read conflicting information on the HD10 viewfinder. -->>>

It's different. I wouldn't consider the HD1 because the edge-enhancement is nicely gone from the HD10.
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Old July 6th, 2003, 10:14 PM   #28
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Steve,

I know you're saving your review of the hd10 for the magazine you write for, but is this version/generation worth buying? Or, in certain cases, worth holding onto? Did you hear about JVC not selling any more so they can make fixes to it, as my friend says a JVC rep allegedly said? (I use allegedly a lot, thanks to working in news.)

Thanks for your help and, yes, that tip you gave fills me with confidence.

BTW, Best Buy is selling a Samsung 30 inch (16x9 shaped) HDTV for $999.

heath
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Old July 7th, 2003, 12:05 PM   #29
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Hey,

I own the HD1, and I'd like to share some findings. Steve, much of what you say is pretty accurate.

However, I've noticed something. You said:

"The JVC controls exposure using the shutter-speed. The shutter-speed can vary CONTINUOUSLY between 1/15th and 1/250th (It seems to stay under 1/250th using an 8X ND -- which I recommend). There is no DEFAULT shutter-speed!

It does NOT work as most of us expect or want -- although it works like most consumer camcorders. And, like the VX2000/PD150 when you don't turn AUTO-SHUTTER OFF.

Think of it as a "Speed Mastered and Aperature Slaved" AE. The shutter-speed adjustment is very fast -- possibly adjusting frame-by-frame to achieve very solid exposure control.

Because a lookup table is used for AE, the aperature will always be as open as possible -- given the current speed. (Thus it is biased to minimum DOF.)"

This is exactly the opposite of my findings.

My JVC has a tendancy to stay at 1/30th and swing between f2.0 to f22 with increasing amounts of light. If you increase the shutter speed to 1/60th it has a tendancy to stay at 1/60th, cycling between f2.0 to f22 unless light drops off for a moment in which case shutterspeed drops back down to 1/30th. This would mean the the shutter wants to stay as slow as possible (excluding 1/15). This AE behavior suits this cameras 30p mode better that what you found.

Also, the camera will NOT go into 1/15 for any reason, unless you set it manually. I like to think of 1/15 as a manually selected low light mode.

Anyways, although disappointed with the non-fully manual exposure, the fact that it's A/E behavior is pretty predictable gives me hope.

I believe that the ability to lock the exposure with a seemingly default shutter speed of 1/30th is not that bad a compromise. Maybe if you increase the shutter speed to 1/60 and not hit any major light changes (staying in the light range of 1/60 and f2.0 and f22) it's tendency to stick with a constant shutter speed will allow you to lock the exposure at 1/60th too.

Although this isn't a perfect system, I think I can live with it given the incredibly fine images the camera produces.

BTW- I believe the people that constantly bash the camera for having 1 CCD or MPEG2 compression, haven't properly seen the images it creates (or are subconsciously upset they just purchased the latest iteration of the dv format). It's wonderfully detailed on a large HD display- like you are staring through a window. I think people are underestimating what increased resolution means in video. While they will GUSH and GUSH about subtle differences in color saturation of 3 chip cameras vs 1 chippers and the stunning differences between 24p vs 30p vs 60i, they dismiss what is quite revolutionary in handheld camcorders. HD is not a novelty. It is the future and is quite amazing.

Even with all the JVC's quirks, it is still the best camcorder 3k can buy right now.
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Old July 7th, 2003, 12:18 PM   #30
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I've also experienced the HD1's willingness to change aperture and leave the shutter at 1/30. When going from dark to light, the camera first closed the aperture then modified the shutter speed.
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