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All about the original single-CCD HDV camcorders from JVC.

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Old July 8th, 2003, 11:00 PM   #1
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Of course the JVC isn't the end all to HD camcorders. Did anyone who actually buy an HD1/HD10 really think as a first generation HDV cam, it would be perfect?

The non fully manual exposure issue is a problem no doubt. But are there ways to workaround it as tedious as it may be? Sure. I can still lock the iris and shutter speed to my desired settings, it just takes a bit more work.

If true, is Steve's recent discovery of a double sampled image at 30p a problem? Of course it is. But when I first got my HD1 it became obvious quite early on that excessive movement of the camera looked jittery and was exacerbated by higher shutter speeds. I knew my next purchase would be a nice lightweight gizto tripod that would travel with my HD1 everywhere. And I also became resolved that I would stay at 1/30th and 1/60th shutter speeds (using strong ND filters outdoors) because those shutter speeds gave the most natural and filmic looks anyways.
So if Steve is right, will I stress? Nope, because it will not change the way I planned on using the camera anyways. (btw- i personally have not seen anything really noticable between 1/30th and 1/60th thus far, but haven't really done a frame by frame inspection)

Could JVC have done a bit more to increase the camera's userfriendliness and flexability? Of course. But even with these limitations, why won't I just give up on the camera?

Quite simply, some of the most amazing video I've ever seen has come from this camera. And I've only had it for one week. The HD images this camera produces can be darnright gorgeous and better than anything else at it's pricepoint.

Think of the difference between those VHS videos you watched as a kid and the DVDs you watch now. The switch from DV to HDV is much bigger than that. The images are rich, detailed, and incredibly lifelike.

I would expect people would be rather excited about such a revolutionary leap in our consumer technology so this JVC backlash is quite suprising to me.

Is the JVC for eveyone? No, most people will do fine sitting back and waiting for the technology to become more affordable and refined. But it is another tool in the mix that that has the potential for doing some new and exciting things.

I personally enjoy reading up on what people discover, good and bad, about this camera (thanks steve, for your efforts on this). But to those seemingly thrilled at the prospect of finding another fault in this product, please take a step back and really try to see it in the context of what it is still capable of.
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Old July 8th, 2003, 11:35 PM   #2
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Some of the most amazing video I've ever seen

There are issues with both the format and the cam's specs, with me anyway. I'm sure that JVC will address some of them. Over the months Steve has been educating us about them. Some people may dislike JVC because a lot of their consumer/prosumer cams have had issues. But then again, other makers have had their share with "issues." Like you say, this is the 1st MPEG2 HD offering for the consumer. It's not for me, but it might be the perfect tool for some.

On the bright side, the 1/3" CCD sure seems like a breath of fresh air when you think about all those cams out there with a 1/6" CCD. :)
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Old July 9th, 2003, 01:15 AM   #3
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<<<-- Originally posted by Michael Hyun Quite simply, some of the most amazing video I've ever seen has come from this camera. And I've only had it for one week. The HD images this camera produces can be darnright gorgeous and better than anything else at it's pricepoint. -->>>

Got to agree! My tropical fish shots are mindblowing. I'm encoding a 5 minute video I edited in FCP. (A 10 hour task!)

Today, I'm going to go out and simply shoot. From what I can see so far is that -- even with the problems -- the video blows away DV. But, I'm willing to live without perfect exposure control. I'm willing to avoid "difficult" motion.

I realize others can't. Which generates some of the emotion.

But, Sony folks said terrible things about Panasonic on the DVX100 lists! I wish we could stay on topic with just the facts.
Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>>
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Old July 9th, 2003, 08:52 AM   #4
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Well said Michael, Frank, Steve,

I just received my HD10 yesterday. Although Iíve barely turned it on, my initial impressions are very positive. I am a consumer/hobbyist and I find most of the objections Iíve read about to be pretty well exaggerated. My highest priority is the HD aspect of the camera. So far most people agree that this camera does put out a stunning picture.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 12:00 PM   #5
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Michael, thanks for the comment. And thanks also to Steve, Heath, Joe and everybody else that has been sharing their experiences, good and bad, over the last few weeks, it has been enlightening and sometimes (sorry) even amusing. I hope you'll be kind enough to give me your thoughts on the following questions.

1. The inherent deficiencies for professionals has been made painfully clear. But I've also gotten the sense that this is a difficult camera to get good results if the user is a hobbyist or even worse (in my case) a camcorder virgin. Are these obstacles so great that you all would strongly advise against someone like me getting a JVC HD?

2. Assuming the answer (I hope) to the last question is no, and if money were no object (not saying that it isn't, mind you), from what all of you have experienced with your own model and heard about the model you didn't purchase, would you recommend that a camcorder virgin such as myself get the HD1 or the HD10?

3. This may be a really dumb question, but I've been unable to find any answer for it. I've got an HD-ready tv, will I need some additional converter or something to view the videos?

Thanks for your help. By the way, Heath, hope your lobbying efforts went well!
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Old July 9th, 2003, 12:33 PM   #6
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Thank you Michael, I completely agree with you. I think it is BECAUSE this camera is so revolutionary that people are threatened by it. The image from it blows away just about every DV camera out there, so it is very threatening to people who have spent good money recently on DV cameras, and understandably they don't want to feel that they might have got a better image for the same price or less than they paid. This is natural and I think we will have to live with this senseless camera bashing for a while yet, until it sinks in that DV is dead, which I believe it is. Though it will of course linger on for a couple of years until all prosumer cams go HD, which I think will happen very fast.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 01:44 PM   #7
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The deficit that has peeved off most professionals has been the lack of complete manual exposure controls. There are a few ways to work around it. However, for a consumer "video virgin", aperature priority or shutter priorty manual exposure would probably be as much control as you ever need. The AE is actually very good on this camera.

I think the biggest issue for novices with this camera, is that it does not look good with the shaky shaky. What can be beautiful and detailed can quickly turn into the nauseating if this camera is wildly swung about.

Given the amount of pixels and the detail available on a large HD screen, I believe the shooter has more of a responsibilty to craft well composed and controlled shots. The flickering evident with higher motions scenes/shutter speeds does not help, but i believe this is something that will affect all HD cameras more than DV.

A tripod is a simple fix, if you don't mind toting one along.

I don't think there is any problem with a consumer with money wanting to record little Johnny's 11th birthday party in HD.

Just be warned that you should use a tripod.

btw- you don't need anything extra to connect to an HD set.
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Old July 9th, 2003, 03:02 PM   #8
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HD1 vs HD10


I am a consumer/hobbyist as well and just received my HD10 yesterday. I chose the HD10 for the higher resolution viewfinder 180K vs. 113K on the HD1. I also figured that the XLR adapter and internal color bar generator weíre features that I may grow into as the hobby progresses. If you havenít already done so, check out the thread ďCompare HD1 & HD10Ē started by David Kennett. His views pretty much parallel mine. Iíve also read speculation concerning the detail enhancement differences between the two model.
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