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Old July 25th, 2003, 08:13 PM   #1
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HD10 Audio Test

Okay, you can't control the audio going in, but before you buy a mixer and/or a DAT, check this out.

Steve Mullen had me perform an audio test, after I complained I couldn't control the audio.

I performed this test using a Lav hooked into the XLR input:

30 seconds of silence, 15 of me talking, 15 more of silence, 15 of me talking, 30 more of silence.

This was done in:

A. Soundproof audio booth (think soundstage).

B. A loud room with servers (think quiet white noise).

C. Nearly empty newsroom with TVs on and people talking.

D. Quiet (no fridge or A/C noise) bedroom/apartment (where most of us shoot stuff).

My results were VERY interesting. Not once did my first word come out garbled because of any sort of auto audio control. Even in the loud room with servers/white noise (though I did notice a drop in the server noise, I believe, when I talked). That surprised me! Only thing I noticed was a "canned" sound, which was my lav. That's it. What a shocker, huh?

I was cheesed when I saw I couldn't control the audio, but now I'm not. One interview I did (in DV mode to match up XL-1 shots, though in DV mode, it's subpar to the XL-1) SOUNDED overmodulated through my headphones (and I saw red "peaking" on the kinda crappy audio level reading on the LCD), it sounded fine played back through my nice speakers. Wow. I don't even need my mixer, though after problems with mics and my XL-1 with XLR adaptor, all future films I shoot will be done with a DAT recording audio along with a second cable running through the camera.

heath
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Old July 28th, 2003, 10:12 PM   #2
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Heath,

Regarding audio topics. Maybe you or someone else can answer a question. I have audio brakes/gaps between my ďon cameraĒ edits. They last only a second or less, but are somewhat distracting. I havenít read anyone else comment on this so Iím wondering if this could be a problem with my particular camera (defect), or is this a trait of the HD10? My last three cameraís didnít have any such gaps. In fact in some cases audio seemed to actually overlap on camera edits resulting in a smooth transition.

Thanks,
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Old July 29th, 2003, 12:06 AM   #3
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Raymond,

This is actually what I see as the most limiting aspect about this camera. As I had to send my first unit back due to audio issues, I thoroughly scrutinized the audio capabilities on both cameras. There is a noticable 1/2-3/4 second gap in sound between on camera edits. While this is not a problem in quiet environments, it can be annoying in louder ones.

I guess being aware of this (stop recording at natural sound breaks) with some extra post may be the only solution.

Who said JVC would make life easy for us?
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Old July 29th, 2003, 08:14 AM   #4
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Michael,

Thanks for the reply. At least I know I donít have a defective camera. Iím surprised that I hadnít seen anyone else post on this idiosyncrasy. Or if there was I missed it. Being a consumer/hobbyist I am usually content with a majority of ďon cameraĒ edits and am surprised about the audio gaps on a consumer camera. I assume this is a trait with the mpeg recording system. Anyway post editing will clean it up but that does require extra effort that I wish wasnít necessary.

Thanks,
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Old July 29th, 2003, 01:35 PM   #5
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I don't know if I noticed that, unless what you're talking about is when I recorded my voice around white noise (around IT servers) and noticed a possible drop in the white noise when I spoke...

Is this it?

heath
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Old July 29th, 2003, 02:15 PM   #6
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Heath,

No. I donít think thatís it. Iím referring to the sound track actually getting truncated before the end of the video clip and/or after the start of the next video clip. This is even evident with low noise and normal noise levels, varied or constant.
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Old July 29th, 2003, 03:02 PM   #7
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Since I asumed one would always edit, I noticed, but was not concerned by the audio gap that may appear.

In editing, every clip's A and V need to be aligned -- just like double system for film.
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Old July 29th, 2003, 03:44 PM   #8
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Steve,

Iím sure this is the case when the camera is used for a totally professional application. In fact, this trait doesnít discourage me at all, since Iím a hobbyist that also does post processing. It only means I will be doing more after the fact editing then I had anticipated. However, JVC does market this camera toward the consumer that already has High Definition display devices. Many consumers donít do any post processing at all. As such, maybe the average consumer wonít even notice. But since it is different than other consumer cameras in this regard, I thought Iíd ask.
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Old July 29th, 2003, 04:03 PM   #9
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I still stand by what I said earlier, DAT! I refuse to ever record audio through the camera again, even this one (too many problems with my Xl-1 and audio).

heath
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Old March 6th, 2004, 01:59 PM   #10
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Hey Ray,
Got to this post while searching for this audio gap between recordings while in HD. It does not do that while on DV. I also worried maybe there is something wrong with my new HD10 but i think it's the mpeg doing it, since it does not happen when in DV mode.
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Old March 6th, 2004, 02:17 PM   #11
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Heath,
What do you think of using small mp3 players-recorders for audio?
I heard of people using them, as they ( like dat ) are crystal controlled and can even be worn by the talent.
Quality at 128kb is really good , too. Cost? About $140. I have an iRiver unit, but havn't tried this yet.

-Les



<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : I still stand by what I said earlier, DAT! I refuse to ever record audio through the camera again, even this one (too many problems with my Xl-1 and audio).

heath -->>>
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Old March 6th, 2004, 08:02 PM   #12
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Yoram,

I never followed up on another observation after those posts back in July. I donít know if you have done any capturing using the included capture utility or any other utility, but using scene capture mode seems to even things up. That is, scene detection seems to truncate the video track to almost meet the audio track. As you speculated these may be idiosyncrasy of the MPEG format. However, Iíve since found it just as easy to overshoot scenes and clip them down in post.
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Old March 6th, 2004, 10:27 PM   #13
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Ray,
Thanks for the info. I have not even installed the capture utility that came with it until a week ago. I'm not a big fan of using the PC unless its necessary as fo effects and titles. I agree with you on just clipping it on post. Its not critical to me anyway for filming models.
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Old March 7th, 2004, 12:36 AM   #14
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i know this is the HD10u thread, but since we're talking about audio, DAT and capturing audio with the HD10 (that's what i have too), maybe this will be of interest.

i'm using the iRiver IHP-120 and a core-sound mic2496 as a preamp. using it with both lavs and boom mikes. Since the signal out of the mic2496 is optical, the iriver basically acts like a hard disk recorder and i get virtually NO noise on playback. I can boost just about any signal in post without noise. But to be on the safe side, i had the guy from core-sound rig up a connector to split the mono signal into both channels, i set the two channels to different levels and am assured at least one track hasn't clipped. the dynamic range on this puppy is amazing.

i can't get anybody else interested here in this set up, but it works like a dream for me. i've got a hard wired, wireless boom recording system (or as a lav recorder) for under $900. and nobody has to ride the gain.

And not a problem with sync in Premiere and the files drag into the computer via USB2.

FWIW.
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Old March 9th, 2004, 02:45 PM   #15
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I use the provided utility for capturing, which splits scenes apart anyway. I did notice that a firewire dub to DVHS will play through the camera edits without the dropout. I tried copying it back to the camera, but the capture utility still separated the scenes! Just thought this was interesting.
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