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JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
All about the original single-CCD HDV camcorders from JVC.


 
 
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Old January 14th, 2004, 12:09 AM   #31
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Diu - I would say that most here only care about comparing progressive modes. What another cam does in interlaced mode is of little concern. As well, we aren't interested in what this cam does in it's DV mode. How it performs in its HDV modes is where its at.
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Old January 14th, 2004, 12:30 AM   #32
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what we care is what we see, not the format.
hd only means higher resolution.
it is not magic.
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Old January 14th, 2004, 09:07 AM   #33
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Yes I agree, our tests where in progressive mode without gain increase but then again, it is comparing two progressive images that matters for us. The low light performances are somewhat difficult to quantify since the HD10 loses saturation beyond some point. But there is no doubt that the blacks are much darker, less greyish in the HD10 (unless I assume, you adjust the blacks manually on the DVX!)
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Old January 14th, 2004, 10:55 AM   #34
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i own neither camera ...

"the JVC wins hands out for filmic look because mainly of this slightly de-saturated look and also becaus of it's best contrasts. As you might be aware of, the miniDV displays a slightly grey black level, the JVC does not, it's blacks are indeed pretty black and this helps give a better film look."

guess it comes down to presonal preference as i find the JVC too contrasty. it has a much smaller tonal range then dvx 100.

now what this about slightly grey BLACKS ?? hummm
if the camera is set up properly the blacks are black under RGB 601mapping.

i'm not sure how you did the test ... what exactly you tested ..

now could the BLACK difference be somewhere in ?? the JVC is mpeg so i believe that falls under RGB mapping ?? and the DVX falls under RGB 601 mapping ? so black in mpeg would be 0 rgb and black under 601 mapping would be 16rgb .. if looking at images on NTSC monitor you might need to view each under different set ups ?? ..in oher words when switching between the 2 camera's you might need to change the black level on the monitor for each camera ?? somewhere analog came into the picture ?? so does the JVC add or not add set up on D/A out .. does the DVX add or not add set up on D/Aout ? were clips rendered out to new clip ? and if they were did stills come from it ( and was the NLE/codec rgb 601 mapping or rgb mapping ? )

i know you used experience persons etc but that doesn't tell me anything .. i'd rather here/see how they did the TEST.. i have not tested this camera or DVX in any studio test. but if i was to i would tell you what, how i did it and show you the results .. then you could duplicate the test and either come up with same results or not ...
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Old January 14th, 2004, 11:18 AM   #35
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Yes, the filmic look was our personal preferences I agree. As for the black, you should download my sample clips on this forum to see what I mean http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14422 . I personaly never experienced such good blacks on miniDV (exept when the camera was manually adjusted, and the camera was the XL1s, I did not try manual on the DVX100).
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Old January 14th, 2004, 11:27 AM   #36
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in the US NTSC use to have a STANDARD ( set up) .. then digital came upon us ( no set up ) then sombody started gave digital a option for set up .. these days one camera may add set up another may not .. playback deck may or maynot add it ... so one is not sure what happens along the way .. then a NLE may or may not add it , a codec may work in RGB or RGB 601 .. then if you view a clip that rendered with 601 mapping and view it on a NLE that uses RGB the clip will NOT look the same ...

i believe computer monitors are RGB 0-255 ( zero being black)
a NTSC 601 clip is RGB 16-235 ( 16 being Black)
so a mpeg clip with black at 0rgb is going to look black when compared to a clip with black at 16rgb

here's a little black level info from JVC

http://pro.jvc.com/pro/attributes/pr...p/JVC_DEMO.swf
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Old January 14th, 2004, 12:49 PM   #37
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Don, that is a cute little instructional demo (and valuable), however the levels they are talking about is digital luma (Y) levels, not RGB levels.

In a YUV or YCrCb color system it is the Y value that ranges from 16 to 235 (16 being black.) When you convert YUV to RGB, the full range of 0 to 255 RGB values are used.
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