"The Standard" at DVinfo.net

Alex Dunn · October 14th, 2003, 02:47 PM

Is MPEG2 the HD standard, or is it just the JVC?

And does this have anything to do with the big summit between SONY, CANON, etc. to decide on a "standard", or was that something else? I suddenly feel lost.

Barry Green · October 14th, 2003, 03:12 PM

MPEG2 is the standard for consumer HD cameras (the name of the standard is HDV, and the members include Sony, Canon, Sharp and JVC).

MPEG2 is also used in DVD's, and in DirecTV satellite broadcasts, on digital cable systems, and HDTV broadcasts. So yeah, it's pretty much THE standard right now.

Although the JVC HD1/HD10 were announced before there was an HDV standard, the HDV standard includes the JVC, so the current JVC camera is considered HDV-compliant. But the HDV standard includes other shooting modes, including 720p/25, 1440 x 1080/60i and 1440 x 1080/50i.

Alex Dunn · October 14th, 2003, 03:16 PM

What about the Pro cams like the big $102K Sony 24P HD used in Hollywood (StarwarsII)?? What format do those adhere to? The same?

Heath McKnight · October 14th, 2003, 03:33 PM

Alex,

Consider the HDV format (mpeg2-TS) to be WAY different from what the CineAlta and other high-end HD cameras record. Someone on the board will have more technical know-how with those cameras, suffice to say they don't record to mpeg2-TS.

(Small note, that $103,000 CineAlta doesn't include much of anything. By the time you're done, you may end up with a bill as high as my friend and his company: $300,000 +!)

heath

Barry Green · October 14th, 2003, 06:56 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Dunn : What about the Pro cams like the big $102K Sony 24P HD used in Hollywood (StarwarsII)?? What format do those adhere to? The same? -->>>

No, Sony developed their own format, HDCAM.

Heath McKnight · October 14th, 2003, 06:57 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Barry!

Isn't the Varicam (Panasonic) similar to the CineAlta technology, only it's 720 instead of 1080?

heath

Robert Knecht Schmidt · October 14th, 2003, 07:00 PM

Not to mention media at $70 apiece and the usually exorbiant cost of time at a post facility capable of handling 1080p in real time.

Heath McKnight · October 14th, 2003, 07:09 PM

Is it 1080P? I thought it was I...Man, I'm dumb.

heath

Darren Kelly · October 14th, 2003, 07:10 PM

MPEG 2 has many different compression rates, one of the smallest is the HDV standard that JVC and now the consortium have hit.

Satellite uses an MPEG 2, that's also very small.

Sony have a number of products that use different rates of MPEG2.

Hope this helps

Robert Knecht Schmidt · October 14th, 2003, 07:19 PM

Right, the CineAlta puts out 1920 x 1080 pixel images, i.e., 1080p, at 12 bits of dynamic range per pixel per channel. HDCAM is a 180 Mbps format.

The CineAlta is capable of a variety of different frame rates but the standard usually used for American theatrical content is 23.976 frames per second.

Barry Green · October 14th, 2003, 08:00 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight :
Isn't the Varicam (Panasonic) similar to the CineAlta technology, only it's 720 instead of 1080?

heath -->>>

The Varicam is a high-definition cinema camera, but very different from the CineAlta.

The CineAlta is 1920 x 1080, except if you record it to tape you apparently get 1440 x 1080. It can shoot at 24P, 25P, 30P, 50i and 60i.

The VariCam is 1280 x 720, at 60P. You can use it to simulate variable frame rates from 4fps up to 60fps, including 24p of course.

The CineAlta is about 100k, the VariCam is more like 65k.

Heath McKnight · October 14th, 2003, 10:45 PM

Any word on the 10,000,000 pixel CineAlta Lucas shot STAR WARS 3 on?

heath

Barry Green · October 14th, 2003, 11:15 PM

He used HDCAM SR, and it's not 10m pixel, it's the same resolution as regular HDCAM (1920 x 1080), but with an option for uncompressed output and 4:4:4 color sampling. The camera is the HDC-950, and you can read about it here:
http://www.sonyusacinealta.com/content/article_55.shtml

October 14th, 2003, 02:47 PM	#1
Alex Dunn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 202	"The Standard" Is MPEG2 the HD standard, or is it just the JVC? And does this have anything to do with the big summit between SONY, CANON, etc. to decide on a "standard", or was that something else? I suddenly feel lost.

October 14th, 2003, 03:33 PM	#4
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Alex, Consider the HDV format (mpeg2-TS) to be WAY different from what the CineAlta and other high-end HD cameras record. Someone on the board will have more technical know-how with those cameras, suffice to say they don't record to mpeg2-TS. (Small note, that $103,000 CineAlta doesn't include much of anything. By the time you're done, you may end up with a bill as high as my friend and his company: $300,000 +!) heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 14th, 2003, 06:57 PM	#6
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Thanks for the clarification, Barry! Isn't the Varicam (Panasonic) similar to the CineAlta technology, only it's 720 instead of 1080? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 14th, 2003, 07:00 PM	#7
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Not to mention media at $70 apiece and the usually exorbiant cost of time at a post facility capable of handling 1080p in real time. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 14th, 2003, 07:09 PM	#8
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Is it 1080P? I thought it was I...Man, I'm dumb. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 14th, 2003, 03:12 PM	#2
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	MPEG2 is the standard for consumer HD cameras (the name of the standard is HDV, and the members include Sony, Canon, Sharp and JVC). MPEG2 is also used in DVD's, and in DirecTV satellite broadcasts, on digital cable systems, and HDTV broadcasts. So yeah, it's pretty much THE standard right now. Although the JVC HD1/HD10 were announced before there was an HDV standard, the HDV standard includes the JVC, so the current JVC camera is considered HDV-compliant. But the HDV standard includes other shooting modes, including 720p/25, 1440 x 1080/60i and 1440 x 1080/50i.

October 14th, 2003, 03:16 PM	#3
Alex Dunn Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 202	What about the Pro cams like the big $102K Sony 24P HD used in Hollywood (StarwarsII)?? What format do those adhere to? The same?

October 14th, 2003, 06:56 PM	#5
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Alex Dunn : What about the Pro cams like the big $102K Sony 24P HD used in Hollywood (StarwarsII)?? What format do those adhere to? The same? -->>> No, Sony developed their own format, HDCAM.

October 14th, 2003, 07:10 PM	#9
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	MPEG 2 has many different compression rates, one of the smallest is the HDV standard that JVC and now the consortium have hit. Satellite uses an MPEG 2, that's also very small. Sony have a number of products that use different rates of MPEG2. Hope this helps __________________ Darren Kelly

October 14th, 2003, 07:19 PM	#10
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	Right, the CineAlta puts out 1920 x 1080 pixel images, i.e., 1080p, at 12 bits of dynamic range per pixel per channel. HDCAM is a 180 Mbps format. The CineAlta is capable of a variety of different frame rates but the standard usually used for American theatrical content is 23.976 frames per second. __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

October 14th, 2003, 08:00 PM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Isn't the Varicam (Panasonic) similar to the CineAlta technology, only it's 720 instead of 1080? heath -->>> The Varicam is a high-definition cinema camera, but very different from the CineAlta. The CineAlta is 1920 x 1080, except if you record it to tape you apparently get 1440 x 1080. It can shoot at 24P, 25P, 30P, 50i and 60i. The VariCam is 1280 x 720, at 60P. You can use it to simulate variable frame rates from 4fps up to 60fps, including 24p of course. The CineAlta is about 100k, the VariCam is more like 65k.

October 14th, 2003, 10:45 PM	#12
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Any word on the 10,000,000 pixel CineAlta Lucas shot STAR WARS 3 on? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

October 14th, 2003, 11:15 PM	#13
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	He used HDCAM SR, and it's not 10m pixel, it's the same resolution as regular HDCAM (1920 x 1080), but with an option for uncompressed output and 4:4:4 color sampling. The camera is the HDC-950, and you can read about it here: http://www.sonyusacinealta.com/content/article_55.shtml