Jy-hd10e??? at DVinfo.net

Glenn Gipson · November 15th, 2003, 09:04 PM

It seems Europe may get a JVC HD cam after all...no? Could this mean 1280x720 25p for under 4k?

http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/news/releases_html?atype=release&releaseID=1116

Brian Mitchell Warshawsky · November 15th, 2003, 10:54 PM

A detailed news release, and not a single word on how many progressive frames per second in HD mode. Amazing.

Assuming this camera arrives with 25P, what additional challenges might be faced in using an HD Pal system in the U.S.?

Would the only downside be apparent flicker? Would playback even be possible on U.S. HD sets?

Would Vegas be able to handle this as is, or would you need a PAL plug in?

Brian

Heath McKnight · November 15th, 2003, 11:40 PM

Would it go to 24 fps 35 mm film easier?

heath

Brian Mitchell Warshawsky · November 15th, 2003, 11:55 PM

Would it go to 24 fps 35 mm film easier?

heath
_____________________

Heath, as I understand it, the difference between 24 and 25 FPS for film production (4% difference?) is de minimis.

A frame by frame transfere could indeed be made and the only real adjustment is in the audio, and then perhaps only the music. For all intents and purposes, an HD 25P is almost the same as 24FPS. In fact, this is why the Pal XL1 was used for "28 Days Later". With the Pal, they shot 25P AND had additional lines of resolution over the NTSC version which I believe you own.

Although I maintain that a 30P HD system doesn't rule out a creative approach to achieve a film transfer, I have to admit the possible realization of HD 25P has me ready for cartwheels. Forget Varicam. This thing is almost here.

Now, if only JVC would confirm the frame rate, and the price, we may be undergoing our second paradigm shift in the last six months.

Think about this: Within the next 2 to three years, we will probably have on the market a number of affordable, 25P (or 24P) affordable full manual option cams pushing (or exceeding?) 1000 scan lines.

There is no excuse for not making that movie you dreamed about making when you were a kid.

Brian

Josef Crow · November 15th, 2003, 11:58 PM

from JVC

http://www.jvcpro-australia.com/JVCPRO/jsp/c_products_details.jsp?catID=8&prodID=74

"Record and playblack in NTSC 480/60i DV, 480/60p SD & 720/30p HD"

same as hd10u, no?

Chris Hurd · November 16th, 2003, 12:02 AM

It's just the PAL version, ain't it?

Brian Mitchell Warshawsky · November 16th, 2003, 12:11 AM

This is sounding like a cruel tease.

It looks like the "e" model is for Europe, which would presumably be PAL 25P, whereas the EX for Australia is NTSC.

Can someone who is in contact with JVC directly confirm the PAL particulars?

Is a 30P system even possible for Europe?

There has to be a 25P system lurking around somewhere.

Brian

Jay Nemeth · November 16th, 2003, 12:42 AM

PAL is a standard definition system like NTSC in the US. Whatever the proposed HD system is for Europe, I don't see why it would have to stay at 25 frames or 50 fields. Does anyone know if there is there already a broadcast HD standard for Europe?

25p would definitely be a boon to those wanting to transfer to film. A US 24p version like the DVX100, but in High Def, would be even better.

Glenn Gipson · November 16th, 2003, 07:18 AM

>>In fact, this is why the Pal XL1 was used for "28 Days Later". With the Pal, they shot 25P AND had additional lines of resolution over the NTSC version which I believe you own.<<

For clarification, the XL1 doesn’t have 25p, and the reason for shooting with a PAL XL1 is to take advantage of PAL’s extra resolution for a film transfer. All the top transfer houses don’t even recommend using the “frame movie mode” on the Canons.

Also, I to think it is interesting that this press release doesn’t mention anything about the camera’s HD frame rate. Maybe they don’t even know lol.

Frederic Lumiere · November 16th, 2003, 08:25 AM

The JVC HD10Ue will not be HD resolution. That's straight from the JVC horse's mouth at the HDV Roadshow.

Glenn Gipson · November 16th, 2003, 09:43 AM

Frederic, I think you're confusing this camera with the GR-PD1. This press release clearly says: "This single CCD (1.18 million pixel, 16:9) professional camcorder offers the unique ability to record at various resolution modes. It records at HD resolution 720p and will output at both 720p and up-converted 1080i signals."

Zac Stein · November 16th, 2003, 09:58 AM

Australia has NEVER got an ntsc model of anything, we ALWAYS either get our own PAL model or the Euro models... so i HIGHLY doubt Australia will get an NTSC camera.

Zac

Chris Hurd · November 16th, 2003, 10:08 AM

Glenn, I seriously doubt that Frederic is confusing anything, or that he was intentionally given misinformation at the HDV Roadshow. Most likely there's some internal confusion at some lower level at JVC, which is common with all camcorder manufacturers at times when new models are released.

And Zac is quite right, what in the world would an Aussie do with an NTSC camera? It doesn't make any sense to release an NTSC model down under, that's very much PAL country down there. We're seeing some misinformation which can be common at this stage, no big deal, it'll all sort out in the wash.

Darren Kelly · November 16th, 2003, 01:30 PM

In my chat with JVC on friday, they said this camera was going to record and output a Progressive Scanned video, not HD.

They said there is no HD standard for PAL yet.

Does this help?

David Newman · November 16th, 2003, 01:52 PM

JY-HD10E - 'E'uropean issue of the 'U'S of the JY-HD10U it is the same camera -- the press release describes the same specs. It has 720p30 just like the US version. HD formats in Europe are 60Hz based just like to US. Australia has 50Hz HD, making us weird (yes I'm one of them). Australian's and filmmaker's seek 25Hz 720p, will have to have their figures crossed for a JY-HD10A.

November 15th, 2003, 09:04 PM	#1
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Jy-hd10e??? It seems Europe may get a JVC HD cam after all...no? Could this mean 1280x720 25p for under 4k? http://www.jvcpro.co.uk/news/releases_html?atype=release&releaseID=1116

November 15th, 2003, 11:40 PM	#3
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Would it go to 24 fps 35 mm film easier? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

November 16th, 2003, 12:02 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	It's just the PAL version, ain't it? __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 16th, 2003, 08:25 AM	#10
Frederic Lumiere Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Point Pleasant, NJ Posts: 437	The European HD10e not HD The JVC HD10Ue will not be HD resolution. That's straight from the JVC horse's mouth at the HDV Roadshow.

November 16th, 2003, 10:08 AM	#13
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Glenn, I seriously doubt that Frederic is confusing anything, or that he was intentionally given misinformation at the HDV Roadshow. Most likely there's some internal confusion at some lower level at JVC, which is common with all camcorder manufacturers at times when new models are released. And Zac is quite right, what in the world would an Aussie do with an NTSC camera? It doesn't make any sense to release an NTSC model down under, that's very much PAL country down there. We're seeing some misinformation which can be common at this stage, no big deal, it'll all sort out in the wash. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

November 15th, 2003, 10:54 PM	#2
Brian Mitchell Warshawsky Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 216	A detailed news release, and not a single word on how many progressive frames per second in HD mode. Amazing. Assuming this camera arrives with 25P, what additional challenges might be faced in using an HD Pal system in the U.S.? Would the only downside be apparent flicker? Would playback even be possible on U.S. HD sets? Would Vegas be able to handle this as is, or would you need a PAL plug in? Brian

November 15th, 2003, 11:55 PM	#4
Brian Mitchell Warshawsky Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 216	Would it go to 24 fps 35 mm film easier? heath _____________________ Heath, as I understand it, the difference between 24 and 25 FPS for film production (4% difference?) is de minimis. A frame by frame transfere could indeed be made and the only real adjustment is in the audio, and then perhaps only the music. For all intents and purposes, an HD 25P is almost the same as 24FPS. In fact, this is why the Pal XL1 was used for "28 Days Later". With the Pal, they shot 25P AND had additional lines of resolution over the NTSC version which I believe you own. Although I maintain that a 30P HD system doesn't rule out a creative approach to achieve a film transfer, I have to admit the possible realization of HD 25P has me ready for cartwheels. Forget Varicam. This thing is almost here. Now, if only JVC would confirm the frame rate, and the price, we may be undergoing our second paradigm shift in the last six months. Think about this: Within the next 2 to three years, we will probably have on the market a number of affordable, 25P (or 24P) affordable full manual option cams pushing (or exceeding?) 1000 scan lines. There is no excuse for not making that movie you dreamed about making when you were a kid. Brian

November 15th, 2003, 11:58 PM	#5
Josef Crow Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: new york, ny Posts: 66	from JVC http://www.jvcpro-australia.com/JVCPRO/jsp/c_products_details.jsp?catID=8&prodID=74 "Record and playblack in NTSC 480/60i DV, 480/60p SD & 720/30p HD" same as hd10u, no?

November 16th, 2003, 12:11 AM	#7
Brian Mitchell Warshawsky Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Bay Area Posts: 216	This is sounding like a cruel tease. It looks like the "e" model is for Europe, which would presumably be PAL 25P, whereas the EX for Australia is NTSC. Can someone who is in contact with JVC directly confirm the PAL particulars? Is a 30P system even possible for Europe? There has to be a 25P system lurking around somewhere. Brian

November 16th, 2003, 12:42 AM	#8
Jay Nemeth Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 64	PAL is a standard definition system like NTSC in the US. Whatever the proposed HD system is for Europe, I don't see why it would have to stay at 25 frames or 50 fields. Does anyone know if there is there already a broadcast HD standard for Europe? 25p would definitely be a boon to those wanting to transfer to film. A US 24p version like the DVX100, but in High Def, would be even better.

November 16th, 2003, 07:18 AM	#9
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	>>In fact, this is why the Pal XL1 was used for "28 Days Later". With the Pal, they shot 25P AND had additional lines of resolution over the NTSC version which I believe you own.<< For clarification, the XL1 doesn’t have 25p, and the reason for shooting with a PAL XL1 is to take advantage of PAL’s extra resolution for a film transfer. All the top transfer houses don’t even recommend using the “frame movie mode” on the Canons. Also, I to think it is interesting that this press release doesn’t mention anything about the camera’s HD frame rate. Maybe they don’t even know lol.

November 16th, 2003, 09:43 AM	#11
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	Frederic, I think you're confusing this camera with the GR-PD1. This press release clearly says: "This single CCD (1.18 million pixel, 16:9) professional camcorder offers the unique ability to record at various resolution modes. It records at HD resolution 720p and will output at both 720p and up-converted 1080i signals."

November 16th, 2003, 09:58 AM	#12
Zac Stein Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 730	Australia has NEVER got an ntsc model of anything, we ALWAYS either get our own PAL model or the Euro models... so i HIGHLY doubt Australia will get an NTSC camera. Zac

November 16th, 2003, 01:30 PM	#14
Darren Kelly Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver Posts: 351	In my chat with JVC on friday, they said this camera was going to record and output a Progressive Scanned video, not HD. They said there is no HD standard for PAL yet. Does this help? __________________ Darren Kelly

November 16th, 2003, 01:52 PM	#15
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	JY-HD10E - 'E'uropean issue of the 'U'S of the JY-HD10U it is the same camera -- the press release describes the same specs. It has 720p30 just like the US version. HD formats in Europe are 60Hz based just like to US. Australia has 50Hz HD, making us weird (yes I'm one of them). Australian's and filmmaker's seek 25Hz 720p, will have to have their figures crossed for a JY-HD10A.