Comparison frames from HD-1/HD-10 at DVinfo.net

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JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
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Old January 9th, 2004, 07:22 AM   #1
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Comparison frames from HD-1/HD-10

The frames were cropped from grabs (no resampling).
The HD-1 creates black borders around the white letters in the STOP sign where there are none. This has been discussed before , but I think this shows the difference a bit more clearly.

Here's the link: http://www.videosaurus.com/~kennett/HD1-10.JPG

Thanks to Andres Lucero for the link.
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Old January 9th, 2004, 12:28 PM   #2
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Thanks for the comparison David.
The HD-10 image is darker. Were the settings on the cams the same or were both done in Auto modes?
The HD1 picture seems to be a little more detailed (check the grass and the bricks) than the HD10.
Ken.
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Old January 9th, 2004, 01:31 PM   #3
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HD1's shot--is that from the edge enhancement?

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Old January 9th, 2004, 01:51 PM   #4
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Ken - They were in auto mode - and HD10 is darker. You're right, other things look crisper (maybe not more detailed). The problem is that most new TV sets also add some edge enhancement. So how much does the camera manufacturer add? I prefer adding a little sharpness to frame grabs from the HD10. (Although none was done here).

Heath - yes, black edges are from edge enhancement. They show up other places too, such as a tree line against a bright sky. There will be a dark border on the trees where they meet the sky. Edge enhancement can really make a picture look crisp - but it has to be done very carefully.
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Old January 9th, 2004, 01:54 PM   #5
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That's something I wouldn't really like, edge enhancement.

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Old January 9th, 2004, 02:18 PM   #6
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Heath - the HD10 has edge enhancement too. (all cameras have it). In my view, the HD10 was done with more finesse - the HD1 was a bit heavy-handed.
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Old January 9th, 2004, 02:23 PM   #7
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Okay, correction: I don't want "heavy handed" edge enhancement! :-)

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Old January 9th, 2004, 05:29 PM   #8
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Possibly a lamo question from an HD ignoramus:
Why would HD need any kind of edge enhancement?
Isn't it crystal clear enough?
Wouldn't any sort of enhancement stand out from the clarity of HD as noise?
It makes no sense.

Shawn

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Old January 9th, 2004, 06:08 PM   #9
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My friend Jon mentioned that on the HD1, it makes sense, because the consumer would want that sort of thing.

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Old January 9th, 2004, 07:39 PM   #10
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Can the EE on the HD10 be dialed out/down the way Sharpness on my PDX10 can? Sharpness makes a mess out of SD, I can't believe people find this sort of thing to be an improvement of images.
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Old January 10th, 2004, 02:18 AM   #11
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It's interesting to note that the extra sharpening on the HD1 is not done on vertical edges. Looks like scan line based processing, as opposed to a true area operation. ( less CPU needed ).
Look at the stop sign left and right edges. Same.

BTW, sharpening is pretty much done to all footage, including 35mm film scans. Done correctly, it is used to compensate for optical path losses. Kodak film equipment used to call it 'Aperture correction'.
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Old January 10th, 2004, 04:22 PM   #12
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IMHO not a real comparison

Can you put them both in manual mode and then do a comparison, no sharpening, 1/4 scale, 1/2 scale sharpening. The shot you chose has a range of shadow valuess it would be nice if there were some range of whites.

A lot of cameras also have sharpening just for red.

I could also provide you with an 8X10 grayscale and resolution chart.

The ringing is definately due to edge enhancement but this parameter should be be controllable.

I have some nice cameras but I'm looking at getting one of the HDs
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Old January 10th, 2004, 05:18 PM   #13
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it is obvious the grab of hd1 is wider than the hd10, did you shoot at different resolution?and what happened to that thingy on the left of the stop sign? it is behind the sign on hd1, and jump over to the front on hd10?
if you want to compare, compare on the same setting.
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Old January 10th, 2004, 09:52 PM   #14
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James - I would suggest you read up on these cameras features. You are demmanding things that are not possible.

Diu - "if you want to compare, compare on the same setting"
He did, both in auto mode.

Ken
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Old January 11th, 2004, 10:52 PM   #15
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you're right

No manual mode. Doesn't seem possible,

sorry, dumb rich kids question. i've never owned a camera that didn't cost $2000 or more.

I'm just catching up and seeing that many are disappointed in this shortcoming especially on the "pro" model.
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