Soft Contrast filter for HD1/HD10 at DVinfo.net

Chris Gordon · March 16th, 2004, 03:16 PM

Has anyone used a Soft Contrast filter to correct the contrast issues with these cameras? I was thinking about buying a Tiffen soft contrast filter - which claims to darken highlights and lighten shadows. It could improve the image quality somewhat. I'm looking for any feedback before I buy it.

Thanks

-Chris Gordon
Promo Producer
KABC-TV
Los Angeles

Ken Hodson · March 16th, 2004, 05:23 PM

Interesting. I thought thats what an UltraCon filter did. Whats the differance?
Ken

Chris Gordon · March 16th, 2004, 06:27 PM

I'm not sure what the difference is other than it may soften the image as well? I'm going to buy it and test it out.

Meanwhile, here's a good HD guide from Tiffen. (Even though it's HDCAM.)

http://www.posteffects.com/usersguid...en/tiffen0.htm

-Chris Gordon
Promo Producer
KABC-TV
Los Angeles

Charles Papert · March 16th, 2004, 07:18 PM

If I remember correctly, the soft con claims to lower the highlights (while a low con lifts the shadows). Both will create halation around highlights, like a Promist. The Ultracon was later technology, and is designed to do the job of both the soft and low cons without flaring highlights. I never see the soft and low cons in use any more.

Ed Hill · March 16th, 2004, 10:31 PM

So maybe the Ultra Con would be a good choice with the HD 10 camera.

Given that the HD10 has many more pixels than competitors like PD150 or Panasonic DVX100, which puts more information in the image.

The next question is: Since most articles I've read say that the single chip HD10 has slightly less color saturation compared to 3 chip cameras, are there any filters that will help to increase color saturation?

Ed Hill

Ken Hodson · March 17th, 2004, 01:48 AM

Check the fiffen link above. Post is the best colour enhancer IMHO.
I always thought the "not intense enough colour" argument was lame, as everyone who owns the cam surely owns a PC with which to colour correct.
Ken

Charles Papert · March 17th, 2004, 12:22 PM

Underexposing somewhat not only helps with the highlights, but it also adds a bit of color saturation.

Brian Broz · March 17th, 2004, 10:01 PM

Ultracon 1 or 2 is the best outdoor filter I have used for video. Works great for skiing and bright days with white sand or snow.
To saturate colors, use an Enhancer or even better yet a polarizer. Most DPs I know use a pola even indoors for interviews. (Schneider has a gorgeous 1 stop pola which is great for this).
FWIW

Brian Broz

Charles Papert · March 18th, 2004, 01:18 AM

<,Most DPs I know use a pola even indoors for interviews.>>

Hmm! That's interesting, I'm not sure if I've ever seen or personally used a pola indoors. Without the scattering effects of daylight, a pola just isn't going to have that much to do (unless you are shooting someone in front of a window with sidelit sky, I guess).

The only thing I can imagine is that if you don't make the exposure compensation for the pola, you will end up with a more saturated image due to the underexposure that will result...

Brian Broz · March 18th, 2004, 12:58 PM

Charles,
I am no expert by any means...and don't pretend to be!
A few Digibeta/HD guys I know use the pola to help reduce shinyness in skin with interviews, while helping remove reflections (eyeglasses, walls etc.). Not sure how much it would matter, but I would imagine daylight is present with most of these guys...as they use Kinos and 200/400 HMIs for fill and/or backlights.
As you suggest, the saturation of colors most likely would be negligable indoors, but substantial in outdoor scenes.
A DP from Hong Kong first introduced me to the 1 stop Pola and the results I saw on the monitor were impressive.
FWIW,

Brian Broz

Charles Papert · March 18th, 2004, 02:41 PM

Thanks Brian, that is certainly something to think about. The glasses issue is always a problem. The thing is that pola's only help with reflections on glass if the glass is around a 45 degree angle to the camera; if the subject is turned that much, it's not so hard to keep the key light out of the glasses to begin with.

As far as shiny faces--assuming that makeup is out of the question, there may be something to this.

It is thinking outside the box, so I'll have to play around with that one of these days.

Thanks for bringing this up, and please don't feel like I was challenging your post, just the concepts, which is what makes the forum great. Hopefully someone who has tried this will chime in. I have used the 1-stop Pola for late-afternoon exteriors, especially car interiors as shot through the windshield where you need the extra exposure.

Brian Broz · March 18th, 2004, 04:10 PM

No offense taken Charles!
I have read (and learned from) many of your valueable posts in the past.
All the best,

Brian

Ken Hodson · April 27th, 2004, 12:36 PM

With regards to the UltraCon, where is its best placement?
My choices are 52mm thread - onto the lens befor the wide angle, matte box with dual polarizers
or
72mm thread - after the wide angle, befor the matte box and polarizers.
Does it matter?
Ken

Ken Hodson · April 27th, 2004, 09:22 PM

I just realized it better be the 52mm or I can't use it without the wide angle.
Ken

March 16th, 2004, 03:16 PM	#1
Chris Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 44	Soft Contrast filter for HD1/HD10 Has anyone used a Soft Contrast filter to correct the contrast issues with these cameras? I was thinking about buying a Tiffen soft contrast filter - which claims to darken highlights and lighten shadows. It could improve the image quality somewhat. I'm looking for any feedback before I buy it. Thanks -Chris Gordon Promo Producer KABC-TV Los Angeles

March 16th, 2004, 05:23 PM	#2
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Interesting. I thought thats what an UltraCon filter did. Whats the differance? Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

March 16th, 2004, 06:27 PM	#3
Chris Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hollywood, CA Posts: 44	Soft contrast filter I'm not sure what the difference is other than it may soften the image as well? I'm going to buy it and test it out. Meanwhile, here's a good HD guide from Tiffen. (Even though it's HDCAM.) http://www.posteffects.com/usersguid...en/tiffen0.htm -Chris Gordon Promo Producer KABC-TV Los Angeles

March 16th, 2004, 07:18 PM	#4
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	If I remember correctly, the soft con claims to lower the highlights (while a low con lifts the shadows). Both will create halation around highlights, like a Promist. The Ultracon was later technology, and is designed to do the job of both the soft and low cons without flaring highlights. I never see the soft and low cons in use any more. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

March 16th, 2004, 10:31 PM	#5
Ed Hill Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Atlanta, GA, USA Posts: 104	So maybe the Ultra Con would be a good choice with the HD 10 camera. Given that the HD10 has many more pixels than competitors like PD150 or Panasonic DVX100, which puts more information in the image. The next question is: Since most articles I've read say that the single chip HD10 has slightly less color saturation compared to 3 chip cameras, are there any filters that will help to increase color saturation? Ed Hill __________________ Ed Hill HighlyDef Productions, Atlanta, GA prblog.edhillpr.com Video and Online Advertising ed@highlydef.com

March 17th, 2004, 01:48 AM	#6
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Check the fiffen link above. Post is the best colour enhancer IMHO. I always thought the "not intense enough colour" argument was lame, as everyone who owns the cam surely owns a PC with which to colour correct. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

March 17th, 2004, 12:22 PM	#7
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Underexposing somewhat not only helps with the highlights, but it also adds a bit of color saturation. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

March 17th, 2004, 10:01 PM	#8
Brian Broz Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 61	Ultracon 1 or 2 is the best outdoor filter I have used for video. Works great for skiing and bright days with white sand or snow. To saturate colors, use an Enhancer or even better yet a polarizer. Most DPs I know use a pola even indoors for interviews. (Schneider has a gorgeous 1 stop pola which is great for this). FWIW Brian Broz

March 18th, 2004, 01:18 AM	#9
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	<,Most DPs I know use a pola even indoors for interviews.>> Hmm! That's interesting, I'm not sure if I've ever seen or personally used a pola indoors. Without the scattering effects of daylight, a pola just isn't going to have that much to do (unless you are shooting someone in front of a window with sidelit sky, I guess). The only thing I can imagine is that if you don't make the exposure compensation for the pola, you will end up with a more saturated image due to the underexposure that will result... __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

March 18th, 2004, 12:58 PM	#10
Brian Broz Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 61	Charles, I am no expert by any means...and don't pretend to be! A few Digibeta/HD guys I know use the pola to help reduce shinyness in skin with interviews, while helping remove reflections (eyeglasses, walls etc.). Not sure how much it would matter, but I would imagine daylight is present with most of these guys...as they use Kinos and 200/400 HMIs for fill and/or backlights. As you suggest, the saturation of colors most likely would be negligable indoors, but substantial in outdoor scenes. A DP from Hong Kong first introduced me to the 1 stop Pola and the results I saw on the monitor were impressive. FWIW, Brian Broz

March 18th, 2004, 02:41 PM	#11
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Thanks Brian, that is certainly something to think about. The glasses issue is always a problem. The thing is that pola's only help with reflections on glass if the glass is around a 45 degree angle to the camera; if the subject is turned that much, it's not so hard to keep the key light out of the glasses to begin with. As far as shiny faces--assuming that makeup is out of the question, there may be something to this. It is thinking outside the box, so I'll have to play around with that one of these days. Thanks for bringing this up, and please don't feel like I was challenging your post, just the concepts, which is what makes the forum great. Hopefully someone who has tried this will chime in. I have used the 1-stop Pola for late-afternoon exteriors, especially car interiors as shot through the windshield where you need the extra exposure. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

March 18th, 2004, 04:10 PM	#12
Brian Broz Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 61	No offense taken Charles! I have read (and learned from) many of your valueable posts in the past. All the best, Brian

April 27th, 2004, 12:36 PM	#13
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	With regards to the UltraCon, where is its best placement? My choices are 52mm thread - onto the lens befor the wide angle, matte box with dual polarizers or 72mm thread - after the wide angle, befor the matte box and polarizers. Does it matter? Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

April 27th, 2004, 09:22 PM	#14
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I just realized it better be the 52mm or I can't use it without the wide angle. Ken __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.