PD1 Hi-RES mode at DVinfo.net

Sam Sharpe · January 27th, 2005, 07:03 AM

Hello all!
Been a bit puzzled by the hi-res shooting mode on my pd1, it appears that the transport stream is not 25fps but actually 50fps, messed up seeing as I brought the camera for 25p 576. I use Moonlight cordless mpeg player to view my transport streams and i've noticed that on the PD1 hi res mode the info on the transport stream says its 50fps, Im starting to thinks this is the case cause, premiere and after effects and all the software ive tried to use with the footage sees it as 50fps.

Ive just had an interesting conversation with JVC UK regarding this matter and they got immediatley very defensive over the issue, they say that the camera is not supported in any software at all in the Hi-Res mode, so excuse me for asking but what the f*** is the point in this mode then? I wanted to get some feedback from other owners of the PD1, shoot some footage on hi res mode, then capture this stream with the capture software and then play this back, all the info in every player ive used says this stream is 50fps rather than 25fps has anyone else noticed the same thing?

If its the case ive got to take this up with advertising standards as the reason I got the cam in the first place was the fact it shot PAL SD at 576p 25fps.

Feedback would be much appreciated,
Thanks,
Sam Sharpe

by the way on the HD1 when shooting HD what frame rate does moonlight mpeg player show on the info section, is it 30fps as expected or does it display it as 60fps?

Ken Hodson · January 27th, 2005, 11:46 AM

I would ask this in the HDV editing forum.
The output of all the modes is SD PAL so I don't know what JVC is saying. I think maybe there was some miscommunication. What setting do you have it on the cam. I am guessing there is DV, SD50p and SD25p(downsampled HD)?
You say you have imported it into Premiere. How many frames is it showing you in 1 second?

Graham Hickling · January 27th, 2005, 03:52 PM

>> I am guessing there is DV, SD50p and SD25p

That's my understanding too; that the hi-res mode is indeed 50p 576 ..... but that the camera also provides 25p 576. So there shouldn't be a problem.

>>on the HD1 when shooting HD what frame rate does moonlight mpeg player show on the info section?

30fps

Graham Jones · January 27th, 2005, 05:46 PM

The PD1 has DV, 50p and 25p.

25p is the Hi-Res mode.

Sam's right - there is a quirk. The 25p Hi Res outputs at 50p!

All NLE's I have output to perceive the 25p Hi Res as 50p and play the footage twice as fast accordingly.

Also, the component output has two settings only: 50i, 50p!

A little freaky for someone like myself (and maybe you Sam) who is deadset on the 25p mode but David Newman comforts as follows:

'It is not an issue. 50p analog output is simply so that the frame doesn't flicker like crazy. Even 24p film is displayed at 48Hz, with each frame being flashed on the screen twice. You are shooting 25p, if you are editing from the IEEE1394 signal you are editing 25p.

However, the PD1's MPEG transport stream does indicate 50 discrete frames -- this is where some software is getting confused. The MPEG stream marks repeat frames, just the same way 24P film is encoded onto 30fps only NTSC DVDs. The repeat frames do not take a significant slice of the bit-stream, but editing software does need to be aware of it.'

Probably the most annoying thing is the cam also shoots 50p. This means virtually anyone you ask advice from will jump to the conclusion you are confused by the cameras modes.

:)

Ken Hodson · January 28th, 2005, 02:41 AM

So how would one correct for this then?

Graham Jones · January 28th, 2005, 03:16 AM

The implication of David's comment seems to be that you don't have to - though that's in relation to the analog output. There may be 50 frames per second, but there are only 25 differences, so it doesn't matter. After all, it's true progressive.

Unfortunately with software 50 frames are registered by the system and it is neccessary to advise it that there's only really 25.

The method of doing so would depend on the software - certainly the bundled KDDI software can manage it, leading one to believe no such problem exists!

Ken Hodson · January 28th, 2005, 03:43 AM

So it is just a matter of software support, or lack there of.
KDDI can't be the only workable platform. Who else?

Graham Jones · January 28th, 2005, 04:48 AM

I'm cutting pic only at this stage, so the KDDI software works well for me. The 25p image is so nice, I want to avoid processing - and at least the KDDI software has been specifically tuned to the cam.

Tried Media Studio Pro 7 with the HDV Plug in during the summer because it seemed to offer more and purported to support the PD1 - the English version actually had a 'JVC Hi-Res' option you could select! Unfortunately it didn't work at the time and I got a refund. That was the summer, it may be fixed.

Graham Jones · July 2nd, 2005, 11:24 AM

New blog about PD1

http://jvcgr-pd1.blogspot.com/

January 27th, 2005, 07:03 AM	#1
Sam Sharpe Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: London Posts: 31	PD1 Hi-RES mode Hello all! Been a bit puzzled by the hi-res shooting mode on my pd1, it appears that the transport stream is not 25fps but actually 50fps, messed up seeing as I brought the camera for 25p 576. I use Moonlight cordless mpeg player to view my transport streams and i've noticed that on the PD1 hi res mode the info on the transport stream says its 50fps, Im starting to thinks this is the case cause, premiere and after effects and all the software ive tried to use with the footage sees it as 50fps. Ive just had an interesting conversation with JVC UK regarding this matter and they got immediatley very defensive over the issue, they say that the camera is not supported in any software at all in the Hi-Res mode, so excuse me for asking but what the f*** is the point in this mode then? I wanted to get some feedback from other owners of the PD1, shoot some footage on hi res mode, then capture this stream with the capture software and then play this back, all the info in every player ive used says this stream is 50fps rather than 25fps has anyone else noticed the same thing? If its the case ive got to take this up with advertising standards as the reason I got the cam in the first place was the fact it shot PAL SD at 576p 25fps. Feedback would be much appreciated, Thanks, Sam Sharpe by the way on the HD1 when shooting HD what frame rate does moonlight mpeg player show on the info section, is it 30fps as expected or does it display it as 60fps?

January 27th, 2005, 11:46 AM	#2
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	I would ask this in the HDV editing forum. The output of all the modes is SD PAL so I don't know what JVC is saying. I think maybe there was some miscommunication. What setting do you have it on the cam. I am guessing there is DV, SD50p and SD25p(downsampled HD)? You say you have imported it into Premiere. How many frames is it showing you in 1 second? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

January 27th, 2005, 05:46 PM	#4
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	The PD1 has DV, 50p and 25p. 25p is the Hi-Res mode. Sam's right - there is a quirk. The 25p Hi Res outputs at 50p! All NLE's I have output to perceive the 25p Hi Res as 50p and play the footage twice as fast accordingly. Also, the component output has two settings only: 50i, 50p! A little freaky for someone like myself (and maybe you Sam) who is deadset on the 25p mode but David Newman comforts as follows: 'It is not an issue. 50p analog output is simply so that the frame doesn't flicker like crazy. Even 24p film is displayed at 48Hz, with each frame being flashed on the screen twice. You are shooting 25p, if you are editing from the IEEE1394 signal you are editing 25p. However, the PD1's MPEG transport stream does indicate 50 discrete frames -- this is where some software is getting confused. The MPEG stream marks repeat frames, just the same way 24P film is encoded onto 30fps only NTSC DVDs. The repeat frames do not take a significant slice of the bit-stream, but editing software does need to be aware of it.' Probably the most annoying thing is the cam also shoots 50p. This means virtually anyone you ask advice from will jump to the conclusion you are confused by the cameras modes. :) __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

January 28th, 2005, 02:41 AM	#5
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	So how would one correct for this then? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

January 28th, 2005, 03:16 AM	#6
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	The implication of David's comment seems to be that you don't have to - though that's in relation to the analog output. There may be 50 frames per second, but there are only 25 differences, so it doesn't matter. After all, it's true progressive. Unfortunately with software 50 frames are registered by the system and it is neccessary to advise it that there's only really 25. The method of doing so would depend on the software - certainly the bundled KDDI software can manage it, leading one to believe no such problem exists! __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

January 27th, 2005, 03:52 PM	#3
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	>> I am guessing there is DV, SD50p and SD25p That's my understanding too; that the hi-res mode is indeed 50p 576 ..... but that the camera also provides 25p 576. So there shouldn't be a problem. >>on the HD1 when shooting HD what frame rate does moonlight mpeg player show on the info section? 30fps

January 28th, 2005, 03:43 AM	#7
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	So it is just a matter of software support, or lack there of. KDDI can't be the only workable platform. Who else? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

January 28th, 2005, 04:48 AM	#8
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	I'm cutting pic only at this stage, so the KDDI software works well for me. The 25p image is so nice, I want to avoid processing - and at least the KDDI software has been specifically tuned to the cam. Tried Media Studio Pro 7 with the HDV Plug in during the summer because it seemed to offer more and purported to support the PD1 - the English version actually had a 'JVC Hi-Res' option you could select! Unfortunately it didn't work at the time and I got a refund. That was the summer, it may be fixed. __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com

July 2nd, 2005, 11:24 AM	#9
Graham Jones Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 489	New blog about PD1 http://jvcgr-pd1.blogspot.com/ __________________ www.irishfilmmaker.com