Component out resolution at DVinfo.net

Ken Hodson · September 17th, 2005, 03:44 PM

Was talking to a guy who output from his Sony dsr 570, at 1024x576 (must be PAL version) when outputting uncompressed. So my question is will I get 1024x486 60p when going component out or will it still be 720x480p60 as it does to tape?

Boyd Ostroff · September 17th, 2005, 03:49 PM

Hmm, that 1024x576 is interesting because it would be a square pixel version of non-anamorphic PAL widescreen. I suspect that's a camera-specific thing.

I don't know anything about the JVC, but wouldn't be surprised if it were like the Z1. In other words, if shooting in hi def mode you'd get either 1280x720 or 1920x1080 depending on the native format. But if shooting in standard def (DV) mode it would be anamorphic 16:9 and therefore either 720x480 NTSC or 720x576 PAL. In that case it would be up to your monitor to stretch it horizontally to fill the screen.

Ken Hodson · September 17th, 2005, 09:48 PM

SD is not DV. It is true SD or ESD(extended SD widescreen).
DV is listed at 360,000 + pixels.
SD is listed at 465,000 + pixels.
From doing the quick math (1000x480) I think I found my answer.

The HD10, like the HD100 has a true SD mode called 480p60. 60 fps widescreen. This is still an HDV mode, but is also available uncompressed out.

But I still have no confirmation of this and it could be like you think Boyd. Anyone else?

Erick von Schulz · January 2nd, 2006, 05:46 PM

The HD10u pumps out 720 p at 30 fps without compressing.. So I am told.. I was thinking about buying a component to sdi converter and capturing to a computer to test out the quality.. If I do, I will post the results.....

Ken Hodson · January 3rd, 2006, 02:18 AM

Well you were told wrong. The HD1/10 have the ability to output live uncompressed component out only at 480p60 16:9.
HDV takes this stream and compresses to tape as 720x480 using a wide pixel aspect ratio. My hope is/was that considering it is by passing the compression codec would it capture its true widescreen resolution 1024(ish)x480 like the 16:9 SD cams that also bypass compression?
Although there are many (expert!) users, no one has been able to say thus far. I would be very curious if there is a latitude increase by going uncompressed component analog out. As well I think the 60p even at true widescreen 480p offers quite an advantage over 60i DV. It is easy to master it as 24p from the 60p source as well nice slow-mo's are at your finger tips, so to speak. Another consideration with these cams (only) is that when in the 480p60 mode the cam always reverts to a shutter speed of 1/60th, where as is 720p mode it always reverts to 1/30th to save F-stops. If your shutter goals are like mine (1/60th) then the SD mode offer full manual control as you just have to set the exposure lock (given studio conditions where you won't have to worry about over lighting (bright sunny days).
So once again if anyone really has a clue to the details of using these little gems uncomressed, what is the real resolution?
Another thing that had me thinking is that PD1 users (PAL non HD HD1/10's) report that they get 1024x576 (PAL true wide screen) when shooting the Hi-Res mode (1280x675 downsampled) so they are getting the true wide screen resolution of PAL SD, despite what Ken Freed of JVC has told me when questioned about that exact question.

Wayne Morellini · January 8th, 2006, 11:08 PM

If you are correct, then you might find the PD1 resolution a bit wider than that to keep the 16:9 ratio. This sounds very good. But how to record, you may find that one of the SD capture solutions supports extra resolution, others wise, there is a company www.smalcamera.com that does an 1920*480 security camera, maybe they have some way to capture the extra horizontal solution. Try to find the right department for security cameras, and agents for them, to talk to though, they sort of see themselves as a mass market sensor company that doesn't need to talk to anybody small.

Erick von Schulz · January 12th, 2006, 11:59 AM

Does anyone know what is the best hardware for the PC and software to capture the uncompressed component out video of the HD10U? I have seen some converters out there, but I have no idea which one I would use.. If anyone Knows of one for under 1,000.00 I will buy it and test the results.... If it is more then a grand I may just wait and get the HVX200 once the average human on the planet can obtain one......

Ken Hodson · January 13th, 2006, 11:46 PM

One would need a few things. An analog to digital convertor, then a digital capture card. SD would be all that is needed but it would need to capture 60p as that is the frame rate. Possibly it could be set to only capture 24p from this stream. Don't know?
You also will need a very good RAID HHD setup as 480p60 uncompressed will require large fast drives.
I don't think $1000 will do it :>(

September 17th, 2005, 03:44 PM	#1
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Component out resolution Was talking to a guy who output from his Sony dsr 570, at 1024x576 (must be PAL version) when outputting uncompressed. So my question is will I get 1024x486 60p when going component out or will it still be 720x480p60 as it does to tape? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

September 17th, 2005, 09:48 PM	#3
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	SD is not DV. It is true SD or ESD(extended SD widescreen). DV is listed at 360,000 + pixels. SD is listed at 465,000 + pixels. From doing the quick math (1000x480) I think I found my answer. The HD10, like the HD100 has a true SD mode called 480p60. 60 fps widescreen. This is still an HDV mode, but is also available uncompressed out. But I still have no confirmation of this and it could be like you think Boyd. Anyone else? __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech. Last edited by Ken Hodson; September 18th, 2005 at 01:26 AM.

January 2nd, 2006, 05:46 PM	#4
Erick von Schulz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 78	HD10u compnent output 720p The HD10u pumps out 720 p at 30 fps without compressing.. So I am told.. I was thinking about buying a component to sdi converter and capturing to a computer to test out the quality.. If I do, I will post the results.....

January 3rd, 2006, 02:18 AM	#5
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	Well you were told wrong. The HD1/10 have the ability to output live uncompressed component out only at 480p60 16:9. HDV takes this stream and compresses to tape as 720x480 using a wide pixel aspect ratio. My hope is/was that considering it is by passing the compression codec would it capture its true widescreen resolution 1024(ish)x480 like the 16:9 SD cams that also bypass compression? Although there are many (expert!) users, no one has been able to say thus far. I would be very curious if there is a latitude increase by going uncompressed component analog out. As well I think the 60p even at true widescreen 480p offers quite an advantage over 60i DV. It is easy to master it as 24p from the 60p source as well nice slow-mo's are at your finger tips, so to speak. Another consideration with these cams (only) is that when in the 480p60 mode the cam always reverts to a shutter speed of 1/60th, where as is 720p mode it always reverts to 1/30th to save F-stops. If your shutter goals are like mine (1/60th) then the SD mode offer full manual control as you just have to set the exposure lock (given studio conditions where you won't have to worry about over lighting (bright sunny days). So once again if anyone really has a clue to the details of using these little gems uncomressed, what is the real resolution? Another thing that had me thinking is that PD1 users (PAL non HD HD1/10's) report that they get 1024x576 (PAL true wide screen) when shooting the Hi-Res mode (1280x675 downsampled) so they are getting the true wide screen resolution of PAL SD, despite what Ken Freed of JVC has told me when questioned about that exact question. __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.

January 12th, 2006, 11:59 AM	#7
Erick von Schulz Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 78	capture software and hardware Does anyone know what is the best hardware for the PC and software to capture the uncompressed component out video of the HD10U? I have seen some converters out there, but I have no idea which one I would use.. If anyone Knows of one for under 1,000.00 I will buy it and test the results.... If it is more then a grand I may just wait and get the HVX200 once the average human on the planet can obtain one......

September 17th, 2005, 03:49 PM	#2
Boyd Ostroff Wrangler Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mays Landing, NJ Posts: 11,787	Hmm, that 1024x576 is interesting because it would be a square pixel version of non-anamorphic PAL widescreen. I suspect that's a camera-specific thing. I don't know anything about the JVC, but wouldn't be surprised if it were like the Z1. In other words, if shooting in hi def mode you'd get either 1280x720 or 1920x1080 depending on the native format. But if shooting in standard def (DV) mode it would be anamorphic 16:9 and therefore either 720x480 NTSC or 720x576 PAL. In that case it would be up to your monitor to stretch it horizontally to fill the screen.

January 8th, 2006, 11:08 PM	#6
Wayne Morellini Inner Circle Join Date: May 2003 Location: Australia Posts: 2,762	If you are correct, then you might find the PD1 resolution a bit wider than that to keep the 16:9 ratio. This sounds very good. But how to record, you may find that one of the SD capture solutions supports extra resolution, others wise, there is a company www.smalcamera.com that does an 1920*480 security camera, maybe they have some way to capture the extra horizontal solution. Try to find the right department for security cameras, and agents for them, to talk to though, they sort of see themselves as a mass market sensor company that doesn't need to talk to anybody small.

January 13th, 2006, 11:46 PM	#8
Ken Hodson Trustee Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Vancouver BC Canada Posts: 1,315	One would need a few things. An analog to digital convertor, then a digital capture card. SD would be all that is needed but it would need to capture 60p as that is the frame rate. Possibly it could be set to only capture 24p from this stream. Don't know? You also will need a very good RAID HHD setup as 480p60 uncompressed will require large fast drives. I don't think $1000 will do it :>( __________________ Damnit Jim, I'm a film maker not a sysytems tech.