How many people own an HD10 or HD1 (and/or still use it)

Patrick Jenkins · January 25th, 2006, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Ferdinand

By the way Graham, does the HC1 have sharpening controls? And can you lock the AE as with the HD1? I know you can't lock both the aperture and shutter at the same time, like the JVC cameras, which really sucks.

If not with the HC1, can you with the AU1?

Graham Hickling · January 25th, 2006, 12:46 PM

Dave, yes the HC1 allows sharpening to be adjusted.

Regarding locking exposure .... I'm not entirely sure. There a lengthy thread on that somewhere here. My understanding is that I can lock the shutter (say at 1/60) plus the exposure (i.e. a combination of gain plus aperture plus maybe?? internal ND filters).

This is close, but not identical, to how the HD1 functioned - the difference being that with the HD1 when exposure was locked the shutter speed could sometimes change from what I wanted it to be. To complicate matters, the setting it would drift to seemed to differ on different cameras - at least if the forum discussion here was properly summarizing the situation.

One thing I learned just this week is that the HC1 "cinema" mode appears to be true Cineframe30. I have no interest in 24p, but I did like editing in JVCs 30p, so I am about to do some experimenting with generating 30p footage from the HC1. Who knows, maybe I'll even down-rez it to 720 ... and it will be just like old times with the JVC!

Dave Ferdinand · January 25th, 2006, 02:23 PM

Don't forget that the cinema mode would give you 1440x540 which is actually less vertical resolution than an SD PAL camera. At least theoretically.

Graham Hickling · January 25th, 2006, 02:35 PM

Oh poop! For some insane reason I had thought Cineframe 30 was doing something a bit more sophisticated than that. I just checked Adam Wilts article and sure enough:

"Cineframe 30 on the 60i FX1 ... throws away one field and doubles the other. The resulting image has half the motion resolution of the normal interlaced mode and appears like a progressive frame, but it only has a single field's worth of information, so its vertical resolution is somewhat degraded, and diagonal lines may look "steppy" or "jaggy".

Thanks for the head-up on that!

David Kennett · January 25th, 2006, 04:37 PM

I still use my two-and-a-half year old HD10. I wonder what would be available today if JVC hadn't opened the flood gates!

Heath McKnight · January 26th, 2006, 10:56 AM

Dave F., it's really 1080i and NOT cut in half. Take a look at the image, it's wonderful. Both the Sonys and the HD100 have great images. When treated well, the HD10 has great images, too.

Any of the new HD10s/HD1s (made in 2004 and beyond) have the official HDV logo?

heath

Mike Teutsch · January 26th, 2006, 11:17 AM

I have my new XL2, and my XL1s, but I will keep my HD10 also.

Mike

Graham Hickling · January 26th, 2006, 11:35 AM

... maybe I'll start converting my Sony's 1080i footage to 720p30 in post, and then use the HD1 as my playback deck to my HDTV, at least until the dust settles on blueray, hddvd, hdmi and the rest....?

Although...hmmm...I guess I'd have to forgo any surround sound audio while I was doing it that way.

(BTW, I just asked in another thread: is 720p60 a valid HDV transport file format, and if so what, if anything, can play it presently? Not the HD1, presumeably?)

Heath McKnight · January 26th, 2006, 11:45 AM

I wonder if you can shoot in 1080i60, convert to 720p30 and have the JVC read and record it?

heath

Graham Hickling · January 26th, 2006, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

I wonder if you can shoot in 1080i60, convert to 720p30 and have the JVC read and record it?

heath

Sure! A JVC 720p30 transport stream is one of Cineform's HDV export options out of Premiere...

Dave Ferdinand · January 26th, 2006, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heath McKnight

Dave F., it's really 1080i and NOT cut in half. Take a look at the image, it's wonderful. Both the Sonys and the HD100 have great images. When treated well, the HD10 has great images, too.

Any of the new HD10s/HD1s (made in 2004 and beyond) have the official HDV logo?

heath

Hey Heath, I was talking about Cineframe mode only, which is line-doubled. Therefore you get half vertical resolution. In standard 60i of course you do get full 1080 lines split in two fields. :)

Heath McKnight · January 26th, 2006, 11:55 PM

I've read several items that said CineFrame mode only drops quality 25%, though I don't notice it so much in CF30 or CF25. CF24 seems to drop a bit.

heath

Graham Hickling · January 27th, 2006, 07:32 AM

I've just posted a resolution chart comparision of the Sony HC1's 'normal' and 'cinema mode' footage in this thread:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...096#post420096

Also, as explained in that same thread, the HC1's cinema mode in fact appears to me to be CF24, not CF30. Cineform's "3:2 pulldown removal" works nicely on it.

Heath McKnight · January 27th, 2006, 09:59 AM

Graham,

post that in the HC1/A1 board, because we're off track here in HD10/1 land:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=99

heath

January 25th, 2006, 02:23 PM	#33
Dave Ferdinand Major Player Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 359	Don't forget that the cinema mode would give you 1440x540 which is actually less vertical resolution than an SD PAL camera. At least theoretically. __________________ Do or do not, there is no try.

January 25th, 2006, 04:37 PM	#35
David Kennett Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 407	I still use my two-and-a-half year old HD10. I wonder what would be available today if JVC hadn't opened the flood gates! __________________ Dave

January 26th, 2006, 10:56 AM	#36
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Dave F., it's really 1080i and NOT cut in half. Take a look at the image, it's wonderful. Both the Sonys and the HD100 have great images. When treated well, the HD10 has great images, too. Any of the new HD10s/HD1s (made in 2004 and beyond) have the official HDV logo? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 26th, 2006, 11:17 AM	#37
Mike Teutsch Inner Circle Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Port St. Lucie, Florida Posts: 2,614	Still Got It! I have my new XL2, and my XL1s, but I will keep my HD10 also. Mike __________________ Chapter one, line one. The BH.

January 26th, 2006, 11:35 AM	#38
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Here's a crazy thought.... ... maybe I'll start converting my Sony's 1080i footage to 720p30 in post, and then use the HD1 as my playback deck to my HDTV, at least until the dust settles on blueray, hddvd, hdmi and the rest....? Although...hmmm...I guess I'd have to forgo any surround sound audio while I was doing it that way. (BTW, I just asked in another thread: is 720p60 a valid HDV transport file format, and if so what, if anything, can play it presently? Not the HD1, presumeably?)

January 25th, 2006, 12:46 PM	#32
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Dave, yes the HC1 allows sharpening to be adjusted. Regarding locking exposure .... I'm not entirely sure. There a lengthy thread on that somewhere here. My understanding is that I can lock the shutter (say at 1/60) plus the exposure (i.e. a combination of gain plus aperture plus maybe?? internal ND filters). This is close, but not identical, to how the HD1 functioned - the difference being that with the HD1 when exposure was locked the shutter speed could sometimes change from what I wanted it to be. To complicate matters, the setting it would drift to seemed to differ on different cameras - at least if the forum discussion here was properly summarizing the situation. One thing I learned just this week is that the HC1 "cinema" mode appears to be true Cineframe30. I have no interest in 24p, but I did like editing in JVCs 30p, so I am about to do some experimenting with generating 30p footage from the HC1. Who knows, maybe I'll even down-rez it to 720 ... and it will be just like old times with the JVC!

January 25th, 2006, 02:35 PM	#34
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Oh poop! For some insane reason I had thought Cineframe 30 was doing something a bit more sophisticated than that. I just checked Adam Wilts article and sure enough: "Cineframe 30 on the 60i FX1 ... throws away one field and doubles the other. The resulting image has half the motion resolution of the normal interlaced mode and appears like a progressive frame, but it only has a single field's worth of information, so its vertical resolution is somewhat degraded, and diagonal lines may look "steppy" or "jaggy". Thanks for the head-up on that!

January 26th, 2006, 11:45 AM	#39
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I wonder if you can shoot in 1080i60, convert to 720p30 and have the JVC read and record it? heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 26th, 2006, 11:55 PM	#42
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I've read several items that said CineFrame mode only drops quality 25%, though I don't notice it so much in CF30 or CF25. CF24 seems to drop a bit. heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

January 27th, 2006, 07:32 AM	#43
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	I've just posted a resolution chart comparision of the Sony HC1's 'normal' and 'cinema mode' footage in this thread: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...096#post420096 Also, as explained in that same thread, the HC1's cinema mode in fact appears to me to be CF24, not CF30. Cineform's "3:2 pulldown removal" works nicely on it.

January 27th, 2006, 09:59 AM	#44
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Graham, post that in the HC1/A1 board, because we're off track here in HD10/1 land: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=99 heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog