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JVC GR-HD1U / JY-HD10U
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Old April 20th, 2003, 04:14 PM   #61
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I will point out that discussion of politics or personal attacks are forbidden as described in the DV Info FAQ. I have deleted several inappropriate remarks and/or posts and urge everyone to stay on topic.
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Old April 20th, 2003, 04:23 PM   #62
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Steve,
You'd better stick to video gadgets; your economics are weak.

It's true that non-farm unemployment remains at 6% (as of March, 2003) representing approximately 8.4 million Americans. But that does not tell the true story. Under-employment is the real stinger today. There are 4.7 million Americans only working part-time because they cannot find full-time employment. There are also countless people whose financial circumstances have dramatically shriveled because they have been layed-off from jobs and cannot find employment at compensation levels commensurate with what they've lost. (I'm sure that most of us know someone in such a circumstance.)

Employment in the durable goods, transportation and retail sectors has been badly dented, losing nearly 93,000 jobs in March alone.

That said, "wage inflation" is by no means a spectre that can possibly haunt this economy now or any time in the foreseeable future and is not, and never has been, determined by single aggregate unemployment numbers.

Meanwhile, people are borrowing like Saddam's coming to power. Revolving credit rose 8.6% in January (compared to only 4.9% in the entire 1st quarter of 2001), and then rose another 1.0% above that in February. This puts total (US) revolving credit debt at around $721 bil. While not an historical high, it's damn high when viewed in the overall economic context. When combined with the over $1 trillion of non-revolving credit debt it basically means that well over half of average US workers' wages go towards taxes and debt service.

Yes, retail sales have held-up and people are buying big-screen tv's and relatively expensive cars. But nobody expects that to last very long, even with "zero percent" financing deals. (BTW, these 0% deals are killing the bond market prospects for auto manufacturers' financing operations such as GMAC and Ford Motor Credit.) The primary wind beneath the wings of these recent buying binges has been mortgage refinancings, especially cash-out re-fi's, which are rapidly declining as rates have begun to rebound. Say "Gone" to yourself when the Fed begins raising primary rates later this year.

So, I guess this is a windy way to re-assert that the immediate future for the "working man"s discretionary spending levels looks bleak. Additionally, there is little or no impetus to invest in HD home sets, irrespective of broadcast signal availability. (Does anyone really feel the need to watch sitcoms, "reality" shows, or most of the other broadcast tripe in HD?) I believe that HD versions of play-at-home content, such as movies, could be the catalyst that launches widespread conversions. But cooperative decisions on device standards and manufacturing commitments are a long way off.

So I stand by my original projection: 3-5 years before HD finds anything that vaguely looks like a critical mass in US households.
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Old April 20th, 2003, 06:28 PM   #63
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Yes, this is true; credit card spending peaked in 2001 (and hasn't stopped), after going up and up in the late 90s. That's a good reason why the economy was going so good, people were spending on their credit cards (I'm guilty, too, but of buying video equipment to shoot my DV indie films). While it did have a great effect on the economy (I was getting a lot of little video gigs then), people realized soon that it couldn't last forever, thanks in part to the e-economy bust. And we're still feeling the sting from it, in the video business. But not everyone; a company I work for occasionally rents out space at the TV news station I work at fulltime and they are doing gangbuster business! (They also have a 6000 sq. ft. soundstage at their disposal, which helps.)

I agree with Steve, though, more and more folks will go to HD faster, and we can probably thank JVC. I won't buy another mini-dv camera unless it's HD. I bought my XL-1 in Mar. 1999 (made in Nov. 1998) and by next year, I'll have had it for five years. Time to buy a new one then! But not a DV, only HD.

heatho

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : Steve,
You'd better stick to video gadgets; your economics are weak.

It's true that non-farm unemployment remains at 6% (as of March, 2003) representing approximately 8.4 million Americans. But that does not tell the true story. Under-employment is the real stinger today. There are 4.7 million Americans only working part-time because they cannot find full-time employment. There are also countless people whose financial circumstances have dramatically shriveled because they have been layed-off from jobs and cannot find employment at compensation levels commensurate with what they've lost. (I'm sure that most of us know someone in such a circumstance.)

Employment in the durable goods, transportation and retail sectors has been badly dented, losing nearly 93,000 jobs in March alone.

That said, "wage inflation" is by no means a spectre that can possibly haunt this economy now or any time in the foreseeable future and is not, and never has been, determined by single aggregate unemployment numbers.

Meanwhile, people are borrowing like Saddam's coming to power. Revolving credit rose 8.6% in January (compared to only 4.9% in the entire 1st quarter of 2001), and then rose another 1.0% above that in February. This puts total (US) revolving credit debt at around $721 bil. While not an historical high, it's damn high when viewed in the overall economic context. When combined with the over $1 trillion of non-revolving credit debt it basically means that well over half of average US workers' wages go towards taxes and debt service.

Yes, retail sales have held-up and people are buying big-screen tv's and relatively expensive cars. But nobody expects that to last very long, even with "zero percent" financing deals. (BTW, these 0% deals are killing the bond market prospects for auto manufacturers' financing operations such as GMAC and Ford Motor Credit.) The primary wind beneath the wings of these recent buying binges has been mortgage refinancings, especially cash-out re-fi's, which are rapidly declining as rates have begun to rebound. Say "Gone" to yourself when the Fed begins raising primary rates later this year.

So, I guess this is a windy way to re-assert that the immediate future for the "working man"s discretionary spending levels looks bleak. Additionally, there is little or no impetus to invest in HD home sets, irrespective of broadcast signal availability. (Does anyone really feel the need to watch sitcoms, "reality" shows, or most of the other broadcast tripe in HD?) I believe that HD versions of play-at-home content, such as movies, could be the catalyst that launches widespread conversions. But cooperative decisions on device standards and manufacturing commitments are a long way off.

So I stand by my original projection: 3-5 years before HD finds anything that vaguely looks like a critical mass in US households. -->>>
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Old April 21st, 2003, 01:37 PM   #64
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staying on topic

Circuit City has a nice Panasonic 47" HD Monitor for $1399 with zero interest until 2004.

By Christmas you can bet there be sets at $1000 with no interest until 2005.

And, by then most big cable systems will offer HD -- some for free -- some for $10 over DTV.

I think the price issue are nearly solved. Certainly the availability of HD programs is solved.

But for those who think TV is "tripe" there is no solution coming -- although IF that opinion includes HBO, Showtime, Discovery, ESPN, CBS sports, and PBS -- I've got to wonder why one even owns a TV and hence why one is supposedly interested in the JVC HD camcorder.

When I think about it, I'm not sure how claiming HD isn't near and TV is tripe has anything to do with the topic of the JVC. The size of the market doesn't seem to have bothered JVC, so why should it bother me.

When I bought my first stereo cartridge, an extra amp and speaker -- or when I bought my first color TV -- I didn't ask how big the market was. It was obvious stereo and color were coming. It's obvious HDTV is coming.
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Old April 21st, 2003, 02:08 PM   #65
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Personally, Steve, I hope you're right about HD's rapid acceptance. But, unlike stereo equipment, television is largely a sponsored advertising medium that has relied on wide-market compatibility to make that sponsorship a viable business proposition. The switch from b&w to color sets was expensive for broadcasters but easy for households who simply replaced dying b&w sets with color but could still use b&w indefinitely. Television programming was still in its infancy and there was plenty of impetus for people to switch to color. The airwaves buzzed with imaginative new programming concepts. The only in-home alternative for commercial entertainment was radio.

Today's home entertainment line-up is a whole different ballgame in which television is only one of many choices, and generally not the most interesting or imaginative. With sponsors' targeting such a young demographic market primetime programming is of little interest to older educated viewers (35+).

As I noted, perhaps this basic model will change and other media (like consumer HD content and tools) will lead the parade. I guess we'll just have to see how this plays-out in the coming years.
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Old April 21st, 2003, 03:21 PM   #66
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Our new tower is (or will be by the end of this week) transmitting DTV, aka, Hi-Def. All our news studio floor cameras are HD, our switcher in Master Control is HD. The only things that aren't are our cameras, decks and CineWave Final Cut Pro systems.

It's coming. And now more and more people are talking about this camera, here and in production company offices in my area.

Heath McKnight
www.mpsdigital.com

<<<-- Originally posted by Ken Tanaka : Personally, Steve, I hope you're right about HD's rapid acceptance. But, unlike stereo equipment, television is largely a sponsored advertising medium that has relied on wide-market compatibility to make that sponsorship a viable business proposition. The switch from b&w to color sets was expensive for broadcasters but easy for households who simply replaced dying b&w sets with color but could still use b&w indefinitely. Television programming was still in its infancy and there was plenty of impetus for people to switch to color. The airwaves buzzed with imaginative new programming concepts. The only in-home alternative for commercial entertainment was radio.

Today's home entertainment line-up is a whole different ballgame in which television is only one of many choices, and generally not the most interesting or imaginative. With sponsors' targeting such a young demographic market primetime programming is of little interest to older educated viewers (35+).

As I noted, perhaps this basic model will change and other media (like consumer HD content and tools) will lead the parade. I guess we'll just have to see how this plays-out in the coming years. -->>>
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Old April 21st, 2003, 09:44 PM   #67
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<<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Our new tower is (or will be by the end of this week) transmitting DTV, aka, Hi-Def. All our news studio floor cameras are HD, our switcher in Master Control is HD. -->>>

Heath, what station/ Where?

In NYC I note the new 20/20 and CNN studios have HD/NTSC switchable studio cameras. So, supposedly does Letterman on 53rd st. At NAB I heard they will update his MC late summer so he goes to HD next fall. That would be nice.

But it's Discovery and National Geo. that I really want. And, I'd love NASA TV in 720p since that's what NASA has bought.
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Old April 21st, 2003, 10:21 PM   #68
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A local NBC news affiliate, WPTV in West Palm Beach, Florida. We're actually a legendary station that started in 1954 and in the past 4 years, we've been covering some humdingers: Elian (sorta, that was more Miami), the election debacle, the 9/11 terrorists, the anthrax attacks (happened where my good buddy worked, a tabloid building that just got sold to a private developer)...

www.wptv.com

It's cool because the little monitors attached to the cameras are in 16:9 with a little 4:3 box so the floor crew can frame up okay.

heath
www.mpsdigital.com

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : <<<-- Originally posted by Heath McKnight : Our new tower is (or will be by the end of this week) transmitting DTV, aka, Hi-Def. All our news studio floor cameras are HD, our switcher in Master Control is HD. -->>>

Heath, what station/ Where?

In NYC I note the new 20/20 and CNN studios have HD/NTSC switchable studio cameras. So, supposedly does Letterman on 53rd st. At NAB I heard they will update his MC late summer so he goes to HD next fall. That would be nice.

But it's Discovery and National Geo. that I really want. And, I'd love NASA TV in 720p since that's what NASA has bought. -->>>
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Old April 22nd, 2003, 06:23 PM   #69
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Who will buy the JVC JY HD10U?

I'm curious, who is willing to buy (or is leaning towards it and may do so if a demo is good) the JVC JY HD10U?

I'm on the fence, and would prefer to wait for a 24P version of this camera (or another mini-HD) as I would use the camera 85% for indie filmmaking. And what is ADV 24P, Steve Mullen?

Thanks,

Heath McKnight
www.mpsdigital.com
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Old April 22nd, 2003, 06:27 PM   #70
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I would...but

If there was a 25p or 24p version I would buy it to...if everything else was on point.
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Old April 22nd, 2003, 09:56 PM   #71
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You do not want the JY-HD10 when you plan to transfer to film -- unless you want to use 480p60. No way to get 30p to 24p.

You really want a DVX100 for making films.

And, 24PADV mode is the mode you want to use with the DVX100 when SHOOTING FOR FILM.
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Old April 22nd, 2003, 09:59 PM   #72
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Is it HD in 480p60 or is that SD?

heath

<<<-- Originally posted by Steve Mullen : You do not want the JY-HD10 when you plan to transfer to film -- unless you want to use 480p60. No way to get 30p to 24p.

You really want a DVX100 for making films.

And, 24PADV mode is the mode you want to use with the DVX100 when SHOOTING FOR FILM. -->>>
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Old April 22nd, 2003, 10:12 PM   #73
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Standard definition.
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Old April 22nd, 2003, 10:35 PM   #74
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DVX100 for transfer to film?- I don't think so

To anyone thinking of using a DVX100 for making a film/documentary that is intended to be transferred to film I would add a strong word of caution. Go and see what a transfer to film from this camera actually looks like projected on a 40' screen before investing your hard earned cash in a project based around that premise. At Mac World in San Francisco this year, Monaco Labs did just that, showed footage from several DV cameras, and HD cameras, transferred to 35mm and projected in a state of the art cinema. I have to say that the DVX100 footage looked the worst of the bunch, (inlcuding other 60i DV cameras which looked much better) the image was full of nasty artifacts, ghosting and awful pixelation, that you just don't see on a small screen.
Perhaps the footage I saw was not as good as it can be, I am sure this camera is great for other purposes, but based on what I saw, I would NEVER consider it for a Film project. So do yourself a favor and check out what you might be getting before jumping into such a project or buying into the hype surrounding 24p DV cameras, of any make.

All the best

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Old April 22nd, 2003, 10:37 PM   #75
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30p is fine for film production. Landmark theaters are now converting about 150 screens for digital projection. Other theaters use digital projections. Festivals include digital projection. Digital projection is on the rise. With digital projection 720/30p is fine. Transfer to film is extremely costly. If you have the money to transfer to film, you should have enough money to rent Varicam or CineAlta -- and make your film in 24p.

If you don't have the $, you have a choice between 480/24p 4:3 aspect ratio DVX and 720/30p 16:9 HD10; the second is one is the way to go.

30 fps looks better than 24 fps and a lot better than 30p (fps) created from 24 fps. The reason film is not 30 fps or higher speed is economics, not so called film look.
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