Shooting 1/30th shutter at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems

JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems
GY-HD 100 & 200 series ProHD HDV camcorders & decks.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old September 3rd, 2007, 11:05 AM   #1
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 471
Shooting 1/30th shutter

Just got done reviewing a wedding I shot almost entirely at night. I tried the 1/30 shutter speed for the first time. I record in HDV 30p mode. It really makes a big difference with low light performance.

The wedding was entirely outdoors with no ambient lighting.

I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!
Scott Jaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2007, 11:36 AM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Palo Alto, California
Posts: 520
Glad that worked out for you Scott. Maybe you could post a clip? I've got a wedding this Friday, outdoors, at night as well..
Eric Gulbransen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2007, 11:58 AM   #3
Major Player
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post
I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!
That's been my experience, too. I use the HD-100, so no 60fps mode... I figure if the camera is resolving 30 fps progressively, shooting with a 1/30 shutter shouldn't matter. Of course, if you're in DV-I mode, I would imagine it would make a difference, since that's 60i.
Eric Darling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 3rd, 2007, 05:45 PM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LaSalle Ontario Canada
Posts: 289
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post
Just got done reviewing a wedding I shot almost entirely at night. I tried the 1/30 shutter speed for the first time. I record in HDV 30p mode. It really makes a big difference with low light performance.

The wedding was entirely outdoors with no ambient lighting.

I was really worried about shooting 1/30th since the stock preset is 1/60th.

There was almost no image smear. I think I'll be shooting this way from now on. I still prefer 1/60th when lighting permits but dropping the shutter speed seems to work great when shooting in 30p mode!
I use two HD100 and now I just purchased another HD110 Since day one I shoot HD30 with 30 shutter speed inside. I never had any lighting problem. On my website you can download (bottom of the main page -view our High Defenition demo-) a two minutes HD30 footage was recorded 30 shutter speed. (Take about 2 minutes to download) This was my first ever HD wedding two years ago September 2005
www.star-litevideo.com


Laszlo
Laszlo Horvath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2007, 03:47 AM   #5
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Sherman Oaks, CA
Posts: 471
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Darling View Post
I figure if the camera is resolving 30 fps progressively, shooting with a 1/30 shutter shouldn't matter.
Don't forget, the HD100 is a 60p camera (via component analog output) which would explain the 1/60th stock preset.
Scott Jaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2007, 09:21 AM   #6
Wrangler
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 6,108
Images: 1
Shooting 30P with 1/30 shutter can buy you some low light sensitivity. But motion blur can become a problem with the slower shutter speed. This will be most obvious on the long end of the lens where subject movement is magnified. Ironically, close up work is where you need the extra sensitivity to compensate for the light loss due to zooming in.

-gb-
Greg Boston is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2007, 12:06 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath View Post
I use two HD100 and now I just purchased another HD110 Since day one I shoot HD30 with 30 shutter speed inside. I never had any lighting problem. On my website you can download (bottom of the main page -view our High Defenition demo-) a two minutes HD30 footage was recorded 30 shutter speed. (Take about 2 minutes to download) This was my first ever HD wedding two years ago September 2005
www.star-litevideo.com


Laszlo
This footage looks great, do you remember your lens and camera settings?
I don't see any issues with motion blur.
Thanks,
Jon
Jon Jaschob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2007, 07:15 PM   #8
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LaSalle Ontario Canada
Posts: 289
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Jaschob View Post
This footage looks great, do you remember your lens and camera settings?
I don't see any issues with motion blur.
Thanks,
Jon
The camera just arrived a week before this wedding.. That time I didn't know any trick of this camera, so everything was factory setup for HD30 recording. The lens was a stock 16x. The church was a bit dark, so we decide to try the 30 shutter speed. We can risk with this, because we recorded the wedding with two Sony DSR-300a so this camera was there only for try it in real wedding, in real different situations. The footages was so nice, the couple ask me to edit for them as a single camera footage for extra money. I didn't charged them for that DVD.

About the motion blur, I never see one, but much more experienced filmmakers said on this Forum we must use 60 shutter speed, but honestly I don't get it. I'm sure they right, but nobody ever really explained the reason, and show me the difference in reality.

Laszlo
Laszlo Horvath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2007, 11:27 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1,158
I shoot 1/30th in 30p as standard practice. no problem with motion, and I've shot plenty of stuff moving, jibs, dollies, ect. no problem. I don't know who is telling you that you must shoot at 1/60th because they are wrong. its a matter of style.
Steve Oakley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 4th, 2007, 11:41 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LaSalle Ontario Canada
Posts: 289
Images: 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
I shoot 1/30th in 30p as standard practice. no problem with motion, and I've shot plenty of stuff moving, jibs, dollies, ect. no problem. I don't know who is telling you that you must shoot at 1/60th because they are wrong. its a matter of style.
Well few "big name" on this Forum.

I hope they say something again about this on going question

Laszlo
Laszlo Horvath is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 5th, 2007, 12:18 PM   #11
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Larkspur, CA
Posts: 378
I think the confusion is that you really only NEED to shoot at at least 1/60th if you intend to overcrank, but even that is debatable depending your aesthetic. Otherwise I don't think anyone would go on record as calling it a necessity.

Best.
Justin Ferar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 09:48 PM   #12
Major Player
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ft. Myers, FL
Posts: 240
I think the opinions about 1/30 or 1/24 shutter have come from the purists who suggest that those shutter speeds are impossible on film cameras.
In that arguement 1/48 or 1/60 sec or 180 degree shutter speeds can be duplicated and anything longer would be a digital camera effect.

Yet, I've found 1/30 shutter speeds look great with the HD-100. Comparing scenes with 1/60 and 1/30 of the same well lit material, the 1/30 looks just slightly softer and really wonderful. After all, most of us are using CRT's, plasmas and LCD's in NTSC to screen our final product. The same may not be true when projecting the material at 24 fps.

So, I say, give it a go and let your eyes be the judge.

Dave B
Dave Beaty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #13
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: santa fe, nm
Posts: 3,264
Images: 10
There's a phenomenon in physics known as the nyquist frequency. The nyquist frequency is, as applied to a moving shutter camera, a shutter speed twice the frame rate. The reason for wanting to maintain a shutter speed no less than the nyquist frequency is because you begin to suffer motion artifacts at less than the nyquist. If you're not shooting things that move, especially rotating wheels, you shouldn't have a problem.

In practical usage, I'm sure you've seen scenes of wagon wheels, or something like that, that appear to rotate backwards. This is the effect of nyquist, where the camera catches still images of a rotating object and when the stills are reconstructed on a motion display, the wheel appears to turn backwards.
Bill Ravens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 6th, 2007, 10:05 PM   #14
Inner Circle
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Beaty View Post
Yet, I've found 1/30 shutter speeds look great with the HD-100. Comparing scenes with 1/60 and 1/30 of the same well lit material, the 1/30 looks just slightly softer and really wonderful.
Dave B
I'd be interested in elaborating on this subjective assessment. So 1/30th is softer than 1/60th, what other adjectives/descriptive terms can you use? Does it look "Better"?

Others?
Brian Luce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old September 7th, 2007, 06:33 PM   #15
New Boot
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 5
I have produced several pieces shot in 1/24th and 1/30th due to low light conditions and I won't do it again (unless there are intended undercranking or style reasons).

Any shot with motion will inherently be "softer" because of the extra motion blur. But, if you ask me, it's softer in a bad way that risks making a shot look out of focus and I've noticed it bringing out the HDV compression with this camera a few times. The effect is especially amplified in pans, run & gun situations and any subject with fast motion. Often times in uncontrollably low-light situations the extra exposure to your shot is worth the tradeoff of adding motion blur. But personally for me, I will avoid 1/24 and 1/30 all together.

With that said, it really comes down to what you think looks acceptable, use your own judgment I say. No one will tell you that you can't shoot in 1/30 or 1/24 because this industry by nature is a subjective one.
Chris L. Culp is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:10 PM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network