Low Light - HD110 vs. HD200?? at DVinfo.net

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Old September 17th, 2007, 01:30 PM   #1
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Low Light - HD110 vs. HD200??

Apologies in advance for not doing my "homework" on this but I am in need of a quick answer and it seems like an issue someone has already faced and could provide a straight forward, simple answer.

So here's the question - in low light situations, would the capabilities of the GY-HD200 add noticeably to the picture quality over the GY-HD110 under the same conditions? I know the 200 has a better AD convertor and better signal processing but am wondering if this will lead to measurably better low light performance.

Thanks so much.
TVH
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Old September 19th, 2007, 12:36 AM   #2
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No. However, if you shoot in 30p, you might want to try shooting 1/30th shutter.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 10:13 AM   #3
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JVC in Low light

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Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post
No. However, if you shoot in 30p, you might want to try shooting 1/30th shutter.
Thanks, Scott. Good advice for both cameras I am sure.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 07:47 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post
No. However, if you shoot in 30p, you might want to try shooting 1/30th shutter.
Yes, that true. But with the 200 if you shoot 720/60p you can't use 30 shutter speed. (with 30 shutter you will defenetely see "stobe" effect.)
So If you shoot 720/60p w/60shutter the footage will be darker then 720/30p w/30 shutter footage under low light conditions.

Laszlo
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Old September 19th, 2007, 09:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Terry VerHaar View Post
"So here's the question - in low light situations, would the capabilities of the GY-HD200 add noticeably to the picture quality over the GY-HD110 under the same conditions? I know the 200 has a better AD convertor and better signal processing but am wondering if this will lead to measurably better low light performance.

Thanks so much.
TVH
Actually, yes.

I just had a conversation with Jerry Cohen about this today at the San Diego JVC High Definition Seminar. JVC bills him as one of the leading technologists in HD.

Acording to Jerry, the gain circuit is before AD conversion on the 100/110. Gain is added after AD conversion on the 200/250.

This results in lower signal to noise ratio when gain is added on the 200/250 cameras.
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Old September 19th, 2007, 11:20 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by George Strother View Post
Actually, yes.

I just had a conversation with Jerry Cohen about this today at the San Diego JVC High Definition Seminar. JVC bills him as one of the leading technologists in HD.

Acording to Jerry, the gain circuit is before AD conversion on the 100/110. Gain is added after AD conversion on the 200/250.

This results in lower signal to noise ratio when gain is added on the 200/250 cameras.
Thanks very much for the insight. That's exactly the kind of perspective I was hoping to get. I guess the question I have to wrestle with now is whether it is $2000 better. I kind of liked the "no" answer better. :-) Argggh.
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Old September 20th, 2007, 03:05 AM   #7
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I would surprize me that they would make a circuit worse then better on a new model...
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Old September 20th, 2007, 03:25 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Strother View Post
Actually, yes.

I just had a conversation with Jerry Cohen about this today at the San Diego JVC High Definition Seminar. JVC bills him as one of the leading technologists in HD.

Acording to Jerry, the gain circuit is before AD conversion on the 100/110. Gain is added after AD conversion on the 200/250.

This results in lower signal to noise ratio when gain is added on the 200/250 cameras.
I'm sure this is theoretically accurate but I'd be curious about real world difference in low light sensitivity.

Anyone out there done any real world comparisons?
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Old September 20th, 2007, 11:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Brian Luce View Post
I'm sure this is theoretically accurate but I'd be curious about real world difference in low light sensitivity.

Anyone out there done any real world comparisons?
I own an HD100 and twice have had the chance to play with a 250, not a back to back comparison, just the 250 alone. My subjective opinion is the 250 is noticeably quieter on gain.

If the question is sensitivity without gain, Jerry said they were about the same.

For a more direct comparison, maybe someone with both cameras can respond.
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Old September 20th, 2007, 12:05 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by George Strother View Post
I own an HD100 and twice have had the chance to play with a 250, not a back to back comparison, just the 250 alone. My subjective opinion is the 250 is noticeably quieter on gain.

If the question is sensitivity without gain, Jerry said they were about the same.

For a more direct comparison, maybe someone with both cameras can respond.
Does this mean when you use the gain switch there is less noise? Is that what you're saying?

How did the overall pic compare? (same lens?)
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Old September 20th, 2007, 12:29 PM   #11
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Terry, chances are pretty good that you already read Stephen's comparison of the two cams, but just in case you didn't - http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=79436
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Old September 20th, 2007, 01:01 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Brian Luce View Post
Does this mean when you use the gain switch there is less noise? Is that what you're saying?

How did the overall pic compare? (same lens?)
If you mean less noise than gain off, don't be ridiculous. Gain will always increase noise or soften the picture if enough noise reduction is added to bring the noise level equal.

If you mean less noise than a 100 with the same gain setting, yes.

With just a quick pan around the room and checking different spots on the lit set the 250 looks better than the 100. Gain up, shooting into the dark corners, the 250 looks better than the 100.

But it is hard to compare without both cameras back to back and no 100/110 has been set up at either presentation I have attended.

One BIG advantage to the 250 is viewing HD-SDI out to a JVC HD production monitor. Both the monitor and connection are superior to my component to HD consumer monitor set up.

So you can't fairly evaluate with the big monitor and the viewfinder/screen on camera are too small to give more than an impression.

My impression is the 250 is better than the 100 (duh) and better lenses are better than cheaper lenses (duh). Further, my impression puts the 100 closer to the 250 than the other HDV cams I have used. If you have a 100 and don't need the new features on the 200/250, you don't need to put the 100 in a dumpster just yet.

Tim Dashwood probably has done the back to back and may jump in with some acurate info.
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