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Old September 28th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #1
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Pro tapes? Still getting time code drops

Well process of elimination game here... running a JVC HD110 and capturing via Final Cut Pro firewire. I have been getting the dreaded time code breaks (every 8-12 minutes on a long recording) and FCP makes a new clip, losing a couple seconds on either end of the clip. There were not done by pausing. JVC has a firmware update that eliminates or minimizes this. Just did that an hour ago. Still getting the same errors around the same time codes as before the firmware update. Sooooo maybe it's the tapes? Running JVC PRO DVM60ME. $5.50 from BH. anyone having similar issues? Maybe move up to the JVC PRO HDV tapes for $8.50 each? Does anyone thinkg the JVC PRO DVM60ME are maybe not up to reliability levels of the HDV PRO tapes?
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Old September 28th, 2007, 08:49 PM   #2
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I use the cheap Sony tapes about $3 per tape at Frys.

Anyway, after doing that firmware update last July, none of my tapes have had the subclipping problem. All my shots are subclipping properly.

Capturing with AIC eliminates the 2-3 second gaps between clips as well.
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Old September 28th, 2007, 09:51 PM   #3
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IF the break happens at the same moment every time you capture then the likely culprit is the tape. You can confirm this by capturing those few seconds with HDVxDV or DVHSCap. If you can't even get a good m2t stream then I don't have any other suggestion than to capture with a capture card.

Unfortunately even Pro ME tapes don't seem to be up to snuff for HDV. I bought some once by accident because they also come in a yellow box (but with a red band instead of a blue band) and the camera gave me a head cleaning error after about 5 minutes of use. It could have just been a bad batch, but JVC's own literature on the ProHD tapes says that they are a huge improvement over its other tapes.
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Old September 29th, 2007, 12:01 AM   #4
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The JVC Pro tapes are junk - I switched to the $10 HD specified variety about six months ago. They work pretty well, although the heads get gunked up a bit after about 30-40 cassettes, and require a cleaning. I have been tempted to switch to another brand, but I'm wary of uneven head wear due to having been running the same variety for so long now (about 1.5 years). I would love to be convinced otherwise.
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Old September 29th, 2007, 02:45 AM   #5
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I never get dropouts with the Sony tapes.
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Old September 29th, 2007, 04:07 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post
I never get dropouts with the Sony tapes.
Consider yourself lucky!
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Old September 30th, 2007, 03:53 AM   #7
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I've been running panasonic AMQ's. some are perfect, others aren't. totally hit or miss even within the same 5 pak. I shot 2 tapes back to back. one had 60 minutes of material and captured without issue. the second tape from the same box had nothing but stream capture problems. I had to capture in in DVCproHD via component, which is my fall back when native capture fails.
I did run a JVC cleaning tape thru the deck and camera though.

that said, the real problem is FCP ! premiere pro WILL capture these tapes, but 24P support doesn't seem to be working in CS3 :(, but did in CS2. Even DVHS will capture tapes that FCP barfs on. Please complain to the source of the problem, Apple & the FCP dev team.
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Old September 30th, 2007, 08:09 PM   #8
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Can someone clarify for me - The recent firmware update for Final Cut - does it (a) change the way the camera recognises gaps on tapes during playback, or (b) change the way the camera records to tape, eliminating those gaps? If it is (b) then would existing tapes, recorded before the update, still have the same problem?

p.s. this is all academic to me anyway, as there isn't a download for the HD101e update and I haven't got time to send the camera off to a service centre
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Old October 1st, 2007, 03:59 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
I've been running panasonic AMQ's. some are perfect, others aren't. totally hit or miss even within the same 5 pak. I shot 2 tapes back to back. one had 60 minutes of material and captured without issue. the second tape from the same box had nothing but stream capture problems. I had to capture in in DVCproHD via component, which is my fall back when native capture fails.
I did run a JVC cleaning tape thru the deck and camera though.

that said, the real problem is FCP ! premiere pro WILL capture these tapes, but 24P support doesn't seem to be working in CS3 :(, but did in CS2. Even DVHS will capture tapes that FCP barfs on. Please complain to the source of the problem, Apple & the FCP dev team.
Oh I agree. My FCP 5 or 4 (what ever it was) seemed to handle the same tapes in HDV fine. Then with the last few software upgrades it chokes. So JVC did their firmware upate. Seems to help out a lot. 3 breaks per tape vs 12. Again these 3 might be the non HD pro JVC tapes I'm running. I bet however it's still 90% FCP that is overy sensitive to gaps/errors. Too bad my tower is too old to run the newer Aja cards. I would just capture DVCPRO-HD through component and forget about it.

Of course I still have this silly dream that Focusenhancements will offer a solid state strap on box that can take the component video out and turn it into what ever format you want on a row of cheap USB tyle thumb drives.. but again, that's a dream I have. Or even just AJA Io-HD having a built in / hot swappable SATA drive would be enough for me to crack open my pocket book for 4K.

Anyway, I got 2 Sony HDV Pro tapes ordered, 2 Panasonic HDV Pro tapes orderd, and 2 of the JVC Pro-sumer HDV tapes ordered (also sold at Walmart online.. scary). BH is closed for a week due to their holidays so I wasn't able to get new Pro HDV JVC tapes. But I'll post my non scientific results here.
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Old October 1st, 2007, 04:08 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Paul Jefferies View Post
Can someone clarify for me - The recent firmware update for Final Cut - does it (a) change the way the camera recognises gaps on tapes during playback, or (b) change the way the camera records to tape, eliminating those gaps? If it is (b) then would existing tapes, recorded before the update, still have the same problem?

p.s. this is all academic to me anyway, as there isn't a download for the HD101e update and I haven't got time to send the camera off to a service centre
Not sure, but I bet it is the way it reads the tapes and transfers info down the firewire...... I have no way of knowing, but it SEEMED as though the same tape had less breaks AFTER the firmware update than before. I wasn't paying too close attention the first time around when I stopped the capture. I did try capturing the same tape in my older JVC HD10.. and had 15 breaks in the first 20 minutes... vs 3 on my HD110 after firmware update. and I swear I had 6 on the HD110 before the update... but I won't bet any money on that statement..... That being said... the 3 remaining breaks were EXACTLY the same time code as the previous captures. But I think that a few of the previous breaks on the previous cpatures did not happen again after the update.

Also if anyone does the update on thier own, follow the directions after coffee. I didn't screw up, but I could see how it could happen easily.. mostly with waiting for the flashing lights to be in the right sequence. (if you stop it in mid process, Fed-X to JVC and have them fix it....... since the directions say if you foul up, turn off power etc, it will render your camcorder useless..)
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Old October 3rd, 2007, 10:16 PM   #11
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FCP Dropouts

I used to get a ton of dropouts when capturing and used to get a dozen files for a single shoot. That was on my iMac g5 with 1 gig of ram power pc processor. After upgrading to a mac pro 2x2 cpu 5 gigs of ram etc... i re-captured the same tapes and have none if any dropouts. Getting a dropout on the same point of a tape is not synonomous with a tape problem. I realized the dropouts for me happened with a lot of camera movement and so it probably maxed out the bit rate or something. I dunno i'm not technical :)

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Old October 4th, 2007, 02:37 PM   #12
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I've exclusively used the AMQ panasonic tapes and still get random drops as well.....

Steve's right on both accounts. It seems to be individual tapes and it also seems mostly to be an Apple issue as all the other programs seem to be able to handle the breaks.
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Old October 8th, 2007, 06:25 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Scott Jaco View Post
I never get dropouts with the Sony tapes.
Are you using Sony PRO HDV master tapes by any chance?

What camera are you using them on and did you use them from the start? Did you change brands and if so after how long? What were you using?

Questions questions Scott!

I'm curious as I've used the JVC Pro HD tapes and I'm not happy with them. Brand new camera, brand new vtr for playback. The odd dropout too many I'd say.

I've been reading up and the sony master tapes seem to be the best. Considerations are brand changing, and using Sony on JVC equipment (even though I believe JVC will try to scare you into using only their tapes).

ta
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Old October 10th, 2007, 08:10 PM   #14
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Use a tape cleaner every 10-15 hours and stay with one brand. I use all JVC and have very few problems. I mix he $2.50 consumer and ProHD tapes depending on what it is.
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Old October 13th, 2007, 09:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuart Campbell View Post
Are you using Sony PRO HDV master tapes by any chance?

What camera are you using them on and did you use them from the start? Did you change brands and if so after how long? What were you using?

Questions questions Scott!

I'm curious as I've used the JVC Pro HD tapes and I'm not happy with them. Brand new camera, brand new vtr for playback. The odd dropout too many I'd say.

I've been reading up and the sony master tapes seem to be the best. Considerations are brand changing, and using Sony on JVC equipment (even though I believe JVC will try to scare you into using only their tapes).

ta
I have used only Sony tapes my self mostly Sony Pro HDV but I have found the top of the line consumer Sony HDV tapes work just as good and almost half the price. I use the JVC Pro once and was not impressed at all just ask Adam Wilt he shot his documentary using like 100 Sony tapes and swears by them. Make sure you clean your heads on your camera before you switch tapes and I would also recomend if you switch to Sony stay with Sony dont go back and forth between different tapes. Good shooting
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