Easy noise reduction trick at DVinfo.net

Go Back   DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems

JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems
GY-HD 100 & 200 series ProHD HDV camcorders & decks.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old November 1st, 2007, 02:08 PM   #1
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,116
Easy noise reduction trick

HDV is noisy, we know that. The problem becomes worse when you add gain when not necessary. Wait, what's that? Why would I add gain if I don't need it? Simple, the freakin' gain switch flips too darn easily. After reviewing another shot that was supposed to be perfect, and I spotted noise in the dark tones, I realized that the gain switch flipped to the +3db position by mistake.

I had it. This was the last straw. I considered ripping the damn thing off or use the Scott Billups trick: super glue it. I truely believe that it's worth it.
Then I remembered that there is a simpler remedy. Call the menu, go to "SWITCH MODE" and turn gain low, gain medium and gain high to 0.

I know, it's trivial, obvious even, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Turn the damn gain off and you'll have one less thing to worry about. If you really, really need it then it's a snap to switch on but in my case I practically never use it and it caused nothing but grief.

Just turn it OFF! You'll be glad you did.
__________________
Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com
Demo Reel
Paolo Ciccone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2007, 02:53 PM   #2
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 755
I watched Miami Vice again recently and had forgotten how noisy that film is (even on smaller screen DVD)!

There have been occasions I've had to pump it up so to speak, but lack of on board/shoe light didn't help there.
I guess for those required dark, atmospheric scenes you should overlight and darken either by the camera settings or in post?
David Scattergood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2007, 04:22 PM   #3
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
I guess for those required dark, atmospheric scenes you should overlight and darken either by the camera settings or in post?
If you have control of the light that is my preferred method, as long as you preserve the contrast ratio of the scene you can darken it in post, grade it, heck even rotoscope elements of it and do separate color correction and get an excellent result. Many times just playing with Levels will do. If you have AE with Color Finiess then you can really turn the scene colors wildly and in a selective way. At the end of the day your signal will be clearer and you'll have less "dancing pixels".
__________________
Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com
Demo Reel
Paolo Ciccone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 06:26 AM   #4
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
If you have control of the light that is my preferred method, as long as you preserve the contrast ratio of the scene you can darken it in post, grade it, heck even rotoscope elements of it and do separate color correction and get an excellent result. Many times just playing with Levels will do. If you have AE with Color Finiess then you can really turn the scene colors wildly and in a selective way. At the end of the day your signal will be clearer and you'll have less "dancing pixels".
Thanks Paulo - I unfortunately do not own AE or Colour at present so rely on FCP and it's inbuilt colour corrections.

"..rotoscope..." - in this context am I reading it correctly in that you could 'paint/animate' part for the scene to either colour or balance the contrast?
As it happens I was looking for rotoscope freeware (seemingly avaiable for the PC but not mac).
But I at least could do with some kind of on board/shoe light. I shot some footage in a restaurant (not planned - just asked at the door if ok to shoot footage of the chefs and the clientele). It was a Japanese resturant and the chefs (cooking 'live' in front of the customers) really performed for the camera...unfortunately it was pretty dark and the gain almost ruined this footage (brightened up in post but those 'dancing pixels' as you say were pratically high as a kite!).

Finding your tru colour 3 scene helpful by the way - cheers for that (be sure of a credit for any shorts I do), it's tough without the necessary high quality monitor to play with the various levels and scene adjustments.
David Scattergood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 09:54 AM   #5
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
Thanks Paulo - I unfortunately do not own AE or Colour at present so rely on FCP and it's inbuilt colour corrections.
You can do good with FCP, it's not as powerful and precise as Color Finesse but it works.

Quote:
"..rotoscope..." - in this context am I reading it correctly in that you could 'paint/animate' part for the scene to either colour or balance the contrast?
Rotoscoping is the technique to isolate elements of the frame by creating one or more masks and updating them frame by frame to follow the movements and shape changes of the elements that you want to isolate. In the case of color correction you might want to boost the dark tones of a black jacket wore by an actor without boosting the signal so much for the whole image. If you rotoscope the jacket you can then apply the color correction just to that and bring up more detail without washing out the other colors. Of course you should have placed a light to create more details in that area and avoid fixing it in post but then there are situations, like your run-and-gun Japanese cook shot where you don't have the luxury of staging the shot.

For rotoscoping on the Mac, some of the most approachable solutions are the built-in masks in AE, the amazing masking tools of Shake, or the excellent Silhouette Roto plugin which I use continuosly. See http://www.silhouettefx.com/
They are not free but Shake and AE are defintely worth the investment if you plan on compositing your own videos.

Take care.
__________________
Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com
Demo Reel
Paolo Ciccone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 01:27 PM   #6
Major Player
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
You can do good with FCP, it's not as powerful and precise as Color Finesse but it works.



Rotoscoping is the technique to isolate elements of the frame by creating one or more masks and updating them frame by frame to follow the movements and shape changes of the elements that you want to isolate. In the case of color correction you might want to boost the dark tones of a black jacket wore by an actor without boosting the signal so much for the whole image. If you rotoscope the jacket you can then apply the color correction just to that and bring up more detail without washing out the other colors. Of course you should have placed a light to create more details in that area and avoid fixing it in post but then there are situations, like your run-and-gun Japanese cook shot where you don't have the luxury of staging the shot.

For rotoscoping on the Mac, some of the most approachable solutions are the built-in masks in AE, the amazing masking tools of Shake, or the excellent Silhouette Roto plugin which I use continuosly. See http://www.silhouettefx.com/
They are not free but Shake and AE are defintely worth the investment if you plan on compositing your own videos.

Take care.
I understand now cheers Paulo. Would never of thought of using Rotoscope for that.
Aye - Shake & AE will hopefully soon be in investment (and I believe Shake isn't half as expensive as it used to be?).

Many thanks.
David Scattergood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 02:53 PM   #7
Major Player
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 384
Paolo - I am unfamiliar with these techniques, but then I am not experienced at post-production. I am using Edius Broadcast on a PC - are Shake or other programs you mentioned available for the PC ?
Mark Donnell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:09 PM   #8
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Scattergood View Post
Aye - Shake & AE will hopefully soon be in investment (and I believe Shake isn't half as expensive as it used to be?).
It isn't, in fact that's why I bought my copy last year. I use AfterEffects almost every day and it is by far my default compositing application but Shake is extremely powerful and has been the high-end composing suite of choice for many Hollywood productions. It use to sell for $7000.00 but it's now $499.00, if I remember well. It's a completely different way of compositing than AE, node based instead of timeline/layer-based but it's incredibly powerful. For the price, it's hard to find anything better.
__________________
Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com
Demo Reel
Paolo Ciccone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 03:11 PM   #9
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Donnell View Post
are Shake or other programs you mentioned available for the PC ?
Shake is only available for Mac OS and Linux, AfterEffects is completely multiplatform for Mac OS and Windows. The vast majority of AE plugins are also available in both "flavors"

If you are planning in using AE a good source of excellent training is Lynda.com.
__________________
Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com
Demo Reel
Paolo Ciccone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 07:06 PM   #10
Major Player
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Fremantle, Western Australia
Posts: 253
I shot yesterday in very bright conditions. There were various pressures and each time after a scene I would put the cam on the front seat of the car. EACH TIME I did this, the freakin little gain switch was accidentally activated. I was going crazy not understanding why on earth my scenes were looking blown out my normal settings were not looking as they should. It was only quite late in the day before I realised what was happening.

So, Paolo, this is far from trivial! I was thinking of using some tape over it but I did not even think of your suggestion which is I think an excellent solution and which will effected immediately today. Cheers for the useful tip.

Rob
Robert Castiglione is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2007, 08:10 PM   #11
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: United States
Posts: 1,158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paolo Ciccone View Post
Shake is only available for Mac OS and Linux, AfterEffects is completely multiplatform for Mac OS and Windows. The vast majority of AE plugins are also available in both "flavors"

If you are planning in using AE a good source of excellent training is Lynda.com.
I'm doing all my roto work in combustion. once you get used to having trackers on masks and mask points, per vertex mask feathering, anything less is... less. I also just sprung for monet this week which is just killer. Nothing like a specialized tool for the job.

if you want to learn about AE, get the Meyer's book because its pretty much the AE training bible.
Steve Oakley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2007, 12:30 AM   #12
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,116
Rob, isn't it funny how something that is supposed to be useful turn into a liability? When it happened I felt like such an idiot. In my case it's every time I take the camera out of the bag.

JVC better change that in future models, that thing is a liability. I bet there that thing has created more ruined shots that people are willing to admit :)
Glad that the trick is useful.
__________________
Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com
Demo Reel
Paolo Ciccone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2007, 12:48 AM   #13
Trustee
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 1,116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
I'm doing all my roto work in combustion. once you get used to having trackers on masks and mask points, per vertex mask feathering, anything less is... less.
Oh yes, tracking and 3D tracking. I use SynthEyes for that with output to Shake, Carrara or AfterEffects. Amazing what kind of power we have available today!
__________________
Paolo http://www.paolociccone.com
Demo Reel
Paolo Ciccone is offline   Reply
Reply

DV Info Net refers all where-to-buy and where-to-rent questions exclusively to these trusted full line dealers and rental houses...

Professional Video
(800) 833-4801
Portland, OR

B&H Photo Video
(866) 521-7381
New York, NY

Z.G.C.
(973) 335-4460
Mountain Lakes, NJ

Abel Cine Tech
(888) 700-4416
N.Y. NY & L.A. CA

Precision Camera
(800) 677-1023
Austin, TX

DV Info Net also encourages you to support local businesses and buy from an authorized dealer in your neighborhood.
  You are here: DV Info Net > JVC ProHD & MPEG2 Camera Systems > JVC GY-HD Series Camera Systems

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

 



Google
 

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:23 AM.


DV Info Net -- Real Names, Real People, Real Info!
1998-2017 The Digital Video Information Network