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Old March 3rd, 2008, 05:54 PM   #1
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Filming Paintball...

Soo I am getting a jvc Hd 100 after having good experiance using them at my workplace (for the most part, had a minor sound issue) and one became available at a very good price. second half with less then 1 hour drum time.


Anyway I recently got funding to film the first Irish Speedball league and will be using the jvc hd 100 as one of the cameras.

The issue I have though is safety.

I understand the camera will never be 100% safe in such a situation, but I am ensuring the camera is in a raincover at all times while filming to ensure any stray paintballs (travelling at less 300 or less feet per second) will have their impact softened and no spray gets into the camera's working, but I cannot fully protect the camera as the lens cannot be covered (unless someone knows something :D)

How much damage would a paintball travaling at 300 feet a second do to a lens?

The paintballs dont break skin unless fired at blank range, they bruise when its within 10 feet, the camera will be at the sideline for most of the game shoulder mounted, or else on a tripod...


Also any suggestions on settings for the camera? I cant film HD as its going out on community television/internet and needs to be in 4:3.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:01 PM   #2
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cheapest way is to get a cheapo uv filter and put that on your camera (you should have one anyway to protect the lens from day to day mishaps). second, you could always pick up a fairly large piece of plexi glass and just setup shop behind it (large enough so when you stand right behind it and pan left or right you wont see the edges). as far as settings, you might want to think of rackin up the shutter some, to help capture the paintballs as they fly around. good luck and keep your head down!
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:22 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Connla Lyons View Post


Also any suggestions on settings for the camera? I cant film HD as its going out on community television/internet and needs to be in 4:3.
you can simply drop the 16.9 HD vision into a 4.3 frame giving you a letterbox look.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 06:33 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Ian Planchon View Post
cheapest way is to get a cheapo uv filter and put that on your camera (you should have one anyway to protect the lens from day to day mishaps). second, you could always pick up a fairly large piece of plexi glass and just setup shop behind it (large enough so when you stand right behind it and pan left or right you wont see the edges). as far as settings, you might want to think of rackin up the shutter some, to help capture the paintballs as they fly around. good luck and keep your head down!

Yeah the UV lens is a great idea, will def do that.

The pexi glass might not work, for I will be running up and down the sideline following individual players for the most part.Though when I have it on a tripod it will be good.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 07:42 PM   #5
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Porta Brace and Kata make rain gear that might be a good idea. A paintball coming in from the side and hitting your lens or tape door could send paint all in areas you wouldn't want paint.

As an aside, you might consider getting one of these for your shoot:
http://www.vio-pov.com/products.php?...ogin=&mem=&gr=
They are not HD, but are good quality Point of View video and a great package set up for attaching the camera to one of your paintballer's helmets. Could be a cool added shot for your production.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:08 PM   #6
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Connla definitely would go the protection route

Definitely go both UV filter and raincoat for camera, and keep in mind you need to wear the protection gear for your head when you shoot, don't want to loose a eye or ear drum!
And call me a wimp, but I always wear a box if paintballing, you've been paintballing before I presume, but paintballs break skin from anything upto 20m away when I've played.
And really the plexiglass I think should be a serious consideration, I'd basically tripod mount your camera and then move position with glass, just set up in key areas.
If you want to be mobile, I'd buy a small dvcam that you could live with loosing, especially as it's a fast sport and you run a lot, and running with a hd111 on your shoulder may not be wise. Especially if it's indoor and it gets hell slippery as the carpet is coated in basically a vegtable oil slick.
Anyway just my thoughts

good luck

Adam
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 08:14 PM   #7
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My personal preferences would be to


Examine using a Lesh Bosher or similar SLR still-camera lens to JVC HD100 adaptor and fitting a wide still-camera lens you can afford to have damaged.

These don't come cheap at the wider apertures but outdoors is probably going to be fairly bright. You will not be able to get as wide a view as your standard Fujinon give you.

You would need to make up a handgrip to handle the camera and you would also lose the lens run button.

The one pro in favour of the SLR camera lens. It does not stick out so far, will be mostly lighter than the Fujinon and if hit, exert less leverage over the mount.

You could also ask Les Bosher to cut a breakway failure point into the mount or make several from ABS so that it will tear away at the bayonet fitting lugs.


Find a dive case for the HD100 and use that - fluid and projectile protection in one package. You almost certainly will get some flare and abberations from the cover glass when scuttling in and out of the shrubbery and the dappled light.


Maybe make a crash case. Get some wide diameter PVC storm-water pipe, wide enough to fit the camera, cut portholes in it for your right hand to come up through it onto the lens grip and your left hand to get at the lens focus.

Pad the edges of the holes with slitted black hotwater pipe lagging (black foam) so you don't slash your wrists.

You will need to cut a larger hole out of the side of it for head space for getting at the viewfinder and maybe underneath where your shoulder goes. In this hole you might need to glue in a piece of the pipe turned outwards so that it forms a saddle for your shoulder.

Ideally you would mount the camera to a skeleton frame which would then slip into the enclosure and lock down.

This skeleton frame would have the tripod mount hole and lateral support for AB or V-mount battery if this is fitted to your camera.

These battery kits are a large unsupported mass and a known vandal which damages the rear battery mount, pulls or strips the two small upper screws and loosens the carry handle.

Thump the camera without supporting the bigger battery and something will break.

Fitting frame into the enclosure would be via soft rubber foam doughnuts on pillars, a central axial pillar in centre of the rear wall and three on 120 degree radius centres near the front.

There would be a front window glass or Lexan panel.

Alternatively if you want to lose the panel and chance the front-on impact, make a second rectangular glass or Lexan panel to fit inside the lens hood so that a hit on this will not cause secondary fragment impacts onto the front of your lens if you also have the 82mm UV filter fitted.

Lots of friggin around for sure. It just depends how much you want to protect the camera.

Good luck and enjoy.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 09:30 PM   #8
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I forgot to add, kata and portabrace both make a "body armor" for our cameras:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...ody_Armor.html


http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...der_Guard.html


these plus the rain cover and UV filter could add a nice little bit of protection for ya

I guess if you really wanted to get creative, you could just buy some support rods that you would buy for a matte box and mount a little 4x4 piece of plexi glass to that, so its always portable (better yet, just buy a matte box and put a cheap 4x4 uv filter in it) now you are set!
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:04 PM   #9
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the HD100 is NOT designed to take paintball hits. no camera is...well maybe a BL4 could :) so thinking a raincoat will do much good is not thinking straight. you will destroy the camera, especially a hit in the camera transport area or view finder. think about it, if you where to hit a person hard enough to cause a bruise, would you be willing to hit your camera as hard ? didn't think so.

to shoot in a situation like this, either do so prepared to have the camera trashed, or invest in a solid shell protection case. A solid underwater case will do nicely, but be prepared to make an investement. its possible you might be able to DIY with 1/4" plexi, but there is a lot to engineering a case like this. another thought is MAYBE you can take a stock rain coat and add some thick high density foam padding to it. however you then risk trapping heat inside the camera and overheating with out planning some heat vents or even active fan cooling. not simple engineering, but without first rate protection you will trash the camera with hit or two.
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Old March 3rd, 2008, 10:31 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
the HD100 is NOT designed to take paintball hits. no camera is...well maybe a BL4 could :) so thinking a raincoat will do much good is not thinking straight. you will destroy the camera, especially a hit in the camera transport area or view finder. think about it, if you where to hit a person hard enough to cause a bruise, would you be willing to hit your camera as hard ? didn't think so.

to shoot in a situation like this, either do so prepared to have the camera trashed, or invest in a solid shell protection case. A solid underwater case will do nicely, but be prepared to make an investement. its possible you might be able to DIY with 1/4" plexi, but there is a lot to engineering a case like this. another thought is MAYBE you can take a stock rain coat and add some thick high density foam padding to it. however you then risk trapping heat inside the camera and overheating with out planning some heat vents or even active fan cooling. not simple engineering, but without first rate protection you will trash the camera with hit or two.


no one is saying that the HD100 was built to withstand paintballs, we are just trying to come up with a solution to help protect against an unlikely impact. if you have a some sort of "body armor" on the rig, and a loose fitting rain coat (to help absorb the impact), and some decent distance between you and the shooter, chances of actually causing damage is MINIMAL. not many people are able to jump out there and purchase a full underwater kit. I havent seen one for that camera yet, that would be sweet if they make it though!
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Old March 4th, 2008, 04:55 AM   #11
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I understand that the camera is never 100% safe (I said so in my OP) but I trying to take every precaution to ensure the risk factor is as low as possible.


Yes I play Paintball, its why I got the funding to televise the event. So personal safety is fine, I have all the equipment (Mask, proper clothing, gloves etc)

Its also Speedball a type of paintball that is played on a pitch rather then an open forest, this ensures I know where the line of fire is at all times, and I intend to stick to the side of the pitch at all times.


The highest risk I saw was that the only time I could enter the line of fire is when 2 players are firing at each other from across the field, thus there is a chance if I am filming the closer player I could enter the line of fire. The only reassuring aspect of this situation is the range will be quite far.

The other risk factor is of course Murphy's law where an unheard of situation/accident might put the camera at risk. To keep these moments at a minimum, I am bringing a hard case down to the pitch to store the camera between all matches. The camera will not be left unattended.

That is why I wanted to know the best way to protect the lense as it will be the aspect of the camera most directly in risk.

The UV lense recommendation is good advice to keep the lense safe.That I will do.

Making adjustments to the rainslicker (extra padding underneath at weakpoints) or building/buying body armour is also great advice that I will take into serious consideration.


I wouldn't personally use a pencil camera as the players are playing a high speed game so will not wear the equipment, I could put it on one of the ref's but the cost for such a minimum amount of footage puts the budget against such an investment.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 05:40 AM   #12
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Protection aside Connla, are you going to shoot in interlaced (50i) or progressive (25p, either 16:9 and letterbox or 4:3, or 50p)?
I guess this would be tough to shoot in a progressive style.

Good luck.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:07 AM   #13
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Protection aside Connla, are you going to shoot in interlaced (50i) or progressive (25p, either 16:9 and letterbox or 4:3, or 50p)?
I guess this would be tough to shoot in a progressive style.

Good luck.
I was the editor on a piece filmed on my vx2000, the camera operator for that event filmed it interlaced with a high shutter speed at 4:3 It looked fine for the most part.

The HD100 gives me alot more options, but I am restricted in that I am producing this for a community channel which only accepts 4:3 standard definition. Though its process for producing for television is a bit weird (they take the footage as a dvd and rip the footage off the dvd and put it on their computer server to broadcast through NTL.) so I would be cautious to rock the boat even with filming in hdv and downgrading to sd dvd.


At the moment I am considering dv50i with a high shutter speed (1/250 I think was a good setting from the previous shoots.) to play it safe for the moment.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:25 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Connla Lyons View Post
I was the editor on a piece filmed on my vx2000, the camera operator for that event filmed it interlaced with a high shutter speed at 4:3 It looked fine for the most part.

The HD100 gives me alot more options, but I am restricted in that I am producing this for a community channel which only accepts 4:3 standard definition. Though its process for producing for television is a bit weird (they take the footage as a dvd and rip the footage off the dvd and put it on their computer server to broadcast through NTL.) so I would be cautious to rock the boat even with filming in hdv and downgrading to sd dvd.


At the moment I am considering dv50i with a high shutter speed (1/250 I think was a good setting from the previous shoots.) to play it safe for the moment.
I'm sure seen a few community channels letterboxing to fit within 4:3 (if you were to go 50p [HDV SD50] or HDV 25p)? But perhaps you are better checking with them beforehand!
I think fast tilts/pans etc with 25p might be tough to pull off, but if you want to stay in progressive (I'm never too keen on interlaced personally) the SD 50p option might suit...I'm sure someone on here as shot that type of event and can better advise.
Keep us updated Connla.
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Old March 4th, 2008, 07:47 AM   #15
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I've seen a camera hit with a paintball right into the lens. It actually did no damage, but clearing the paint out was a pain!

I should think that a loose rain jacket would actually be quite effective. When I've been hit by paintballs on loose clothing, you hardly feel it and they often don't break.

At the end of the day, it's your decision and your equipment at risk.
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