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Old April 3rd, 2008, 11:41 AM   #16
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Can someone from JVC jump in here please and give some clarity?
It would be nice if it is a firmware upgrade for the people who invested in this camera HD2xx series.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 04:57 PM   #17
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I would HOPE that it's a firmware upgrade, instead of a replacement model, but I'm not holding my breath after an introduction like this.
It's not a huge feature, since I believe 720p is better acquisition format, BUT I do work with a variety of producers and some will want 1080i to match other footage or other requirements. Transcoding in post isn't always an option, or in the time/budget space.
Now, if it could put DVCPro-HD on to the firestore, THAT would be handy. I have to transcode that for 2 of my clients frequently.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 06:53 PM   #18
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firmware upgrade now for user series hd200. please JVC i´ll hope it.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 09:17 PM   #19
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"it saves a weird but minor step"

"some (producers) will want 1080i to match other footage or other requirements"

It's about time. It saves time by not making the conversion step, and time is money. If you deal with conversions on even a semi-regular basis, then this should be good news for you.

Also remember, there are people who swear by 720p and can list fifty seven technical reasons why it's the better format. Then there are other people who swear by 1080i, and they can also list fifty seven technical reasons why ITS the better format. It's a moot point. It really boils down to personal preference and content requirements. But in this day and age, it's becoming critical that broadcast grade gear can shoot in either format. This is the first step towards a dual format capture for jvc and that's big news if you like this camera lineup and want it to continue.

If you look at todays workflow, yeah, it may not be much of a big deal. A couple conversions here and there, it's only your time. But if you look ahead two and three years from now you'll find that all pro-grade cameras are going to need this capability in order to support a varied client base. If you don't have a multi-format system, you can still get the work done, but you'll spend a whole lot more time doing it.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #20
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This is valuable for 1080i news stations

I use an HD250 with a Firestore in the Promotions department of a 1080i news station. Having 1080i recording to Firestore will be a big time-saver and a potential increase in visual quality, considering upscaling 720p footage to 1080i inside Final Cut Pro might not be the best way to tackle it.
The News department will REALLY benefit. They have to edit on laptops in the field and are under an enormous time crunch. Eliminating any cross-converting step will be very helpful. And to be honest, most news photographers are new to NLE editing in the first place--the whole 720p to 1080i thing is foreign to photographers who have been shooting SD DVCPro for years. So to them I see 1080i recording to Firestore as very good news!
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Old April 4th, 2008, 11:30 AM   #21
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JVC is giving one of these away to some lucky person at NAB...

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....4&postcount=50
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Old April 4th, 2008, 09:10 PM   #22
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unfortunately..

If in doubt, just ask...
I got a reply within hours using JVC Pro's question form:

"For our end users who purchased either a new GYHD200U or GYHD200CHU non-B model on or after February 1, 2008 and would like to have the 1080 50i/60i IEEE 1394 output capability, JVC will offer a free modification of their camcorder through JVC Professional Service until June 30, 2008. Specific details of this modification will be posted on May 1st, 2008 at the JVC Pro web site. Unfortunately, we cannot upgrade models purchased prior to February 1, 2008.

For more information, please contact your JVC district sales manager."

From this, I presume that their is some hardware change. I suspect that it isn't IMPOSSIBLE to upgrade the older models, but perhaps IMPRACTICAL for costs and time their techs would need. But, we'll know more next month, maybe before if our friendly company reps check in here. It's good for the company, if there will be a few disappointed 200 users. Take solace brethern - who'd a known it was possible anyway?

That package with the 17x, Anton Bauer, plate and the DR-HD100 is a darn good deal!
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Old April 4th, 2008, 11:09 PM   #23
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I was expecting the tape transport to go away and be replaced with a hard drive in the 320G rangein the same space... I can wish - right ! then you could record at higher bit rates like 35mbits which would be a very big deal and worthwhile. seems like it'll be another 6-12 months before a new model comes along thats a major step up. of course NAB could always hold a surprise announcement too, but I guess its wait and see. I'm not complaining too loudly though, because it means my 100 is still quite relevant and current enough.

meanwhile sony is selling EX1's as fast as they can make them. I've tried it. other then the really excellent LCD and MUCH wider lens, its not that big a deal.
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Old April 6th, 2008, 07:38 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oakley View Post
I was expecting the tape transport to go away and be replaced with a hard drive in the 320G rangein the same space... I can wish - right ! then you could record at higher bit rates like 35mbits which would be a very big deal and worthwhile.
Clearly JVC can do this as that's how my JVC HD7 works. Up to 30Mbps VBR, no reason it couldn't go to 35Mbps. And, use the codec from the 220/250 to get 60p.

That's enough number crunching for 1080i30.

The next jump is double codec performance to get 1080p60 with a disk bandwidth of 60-70Mbps. 80Mps is only 10MB/s which is not all that fast for a 120GB disk.

Power, heat, and the possible need to use two codec chips are the difficulties.
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Old April 8th, 2008, 10:46 AM   #25
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After speaking with my authorised JVC service rep yesterday, I was told that the upgrade is just a piece of firmware that is downloaded. I'm arranging to have my camera upgraded at a cost to be determined (I have a 4 week old 200U model which is not covered by Australian warranty) so I'll find out more about this upgrade tomorrow, and especially if it is simply a firmware upgrade what prohibits ordinary pro users from doing it themselves.

I'm sure that 200U owners who bought their cameras just before February 2008 would be very greatfull if this were possible.

Has anyone else spoken with their JVC rep or have information that is contrary to this?

JT
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Old April 8th, 2008, 07:39 PM   #26
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Thinking more about getting HD2 out of recorded 720p -- how is it done?

Normally, the 720p bit-stream is pulled from tape and sent out FW.

To get to HD2:

Is 720p decoded to baseband then scaled to 1080i and then encoded to HD2 and then sent out via FW?

This requires two codecs running at once. When JVC went from 30p to 60p they used a "new" codec. Does anyone remember if the new codec was actually a pair of codecs working together for encoding? That would mean EACH codec encodes 1 Megapixels at 30Hz. (The aggregate is 1 Megapixels at 60Hz.)

If this is the case -- then it's possible only ONE codec has been used for decoding and the other one has been idle during playback. And, the new firmware routes the signal though a scaler and into the second codec. This codec is encoding 2 Megapixels at 30Hz. (Which makes me think the 200/250 was designed from day 1 to work at 1080i.)

This leads to 3 conclusions:

1) Each JVC codec can encode at least 1440x1080, and likely 1920x1080, as long as the frame-rate per codec is not greater than 30Hz.

2) If the sensors -- or DSP -- supplies a 1080i signal it can be encoded by a SINGLE codec and recorded.

3) So if the sensors -- or DSP -- could supply a 1080p signal it could be encoded by using both codecs. Essentially, working just like it does now with 720p60, except the resolution is greater.

Which raises the question -- can miniDV tape record 50Mbps? Since DVCPRO 50 does this, there is no reason a tape based camcorder can't move-up to 1080p60. Still working with MPEG-2.

And, since JVC already uses a pair of CCD "chips" to get EACH color, by now it's possible these chips could be expanded from 640x720 to 960x1080. So the 60p output would automatically become 1920x1080. That means only the image processing needs to be able to handle 1920x1080 at 60Hz rather than only 1280x720.

This means a 1080p60 is very possible -- perhaps a "500."
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Old April 9th, 2008, 01:22 AM   #27
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It's just firmware...

The JVC authorised service centre got back to me today and confirmed that turning a 200 into a 200B is a simple firmware upgrade just like the existing ones they have available on the JVC Pro website, and there are no changes required to the hardware, however, in my case because I have the U model (USA) I cannot get it upgraded in Australia because JVC are not making the US model firmware available to Australian service agents, which for me means sending the camera back to the USA (so much for living in a global village!)

Maybe once the hoopla of all this "new model" hype subsides we might see this upgrade available on JVC's firmware update web page. Fingers crossed!! I'm certainly not happy about having to send my 30 day old camera half-way across the world for something I can do in less than one minute right here.

JT
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Old April 9th, 2008, 04:59 PM   #28
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That is good news, if it would be a firmware upgrade only.
Hopefully also for European models.
Definatly a question for next week at NAB.
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Old April 10th, 2008, 04:43 PM   #29
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JVC can only upgrade HD200s purchased on or after 2/1/08? That makes no sense. What are the differences between a camera bought on January 31 and one on February 1? I bought mine last summer. What could they have possibly changed in that time? It's still an HD200U.
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Old April 10th, 2008, 06:32 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Glen Vandermolen View Post
JVC can only upgrade HD200s purchased on or after 2/1/08? That makes no sense. What are the differences between a camera bought on January 31 and one on February 1? I bought mine last summer. What could they have possibly changed in that time? It's still an HD200U.
I would say that there is no difference between the cams however what they mean is that they can only upgrade cams bought after Feb 1 for "free". People that bought their cam before this date will probably have to pay a minimum hourly rate to have this upgrade done.

JT
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