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Old June 21st, 2008, 07:34 PM   #1
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Rails and filter size for HD-200 stock lens

Hi,

I'm trying to decide on a Matte box and rails, and it's come down to Chroziel, Vocas, TLS and Zacuto but I'm having trouble working a couple of things out.

Firstly, are dual 4x4 filter holders ok on the stock HD200 lens or do I need a 4 x 5.65 ? I will need at least one rotating holder too.

Secondly, I want to have the rails mounted permanently, but also to retain the ability to attach the JVC tripod adaptor mounted properly at both the front and rear end of the camera. The only one I know for certain does this is the Vocas, only because of the post from Marc Jayson back in January 2007. Does anybody know if any of the others do this too? It's very hard to get a good indication from most of the manufacturers' websites.

Cheers,

Dan
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Old June 21st, 2008, 08:33 PM   #2
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4x4 filters more than cover the 16x5.5 stock lens and even the 13x3.5 wide lens.

Most rod systems come with a V-mount integrated into the design for compatibility with the quick release plate. If you have an HD200 I would recommend against Chrosziels' rail design because it raises the camera to the point that the back "button" on the plate will not slide into the rear support. (I see you've already thought of this.)
I have Cavision's rods system and bellows 4x4 matte box. The Cavision rods work great with the HD200. I can recommend the design of Cavision's rails (even though I'm not crazy about the graphite rods) but I think Chrosziel has has designed the best 4x4 matte box with lens shade and french flag.
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Old June 21st, 2008, 10:11 PM   #3
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Thanks for that info Tim. That's got me covered for the rails, but now I'm confused about exactly which chroziel matte box model. I can't seem to find 'just a matte box' for the hd200 on the 16x9 site (is this even their actual site or just a company selling their gear?), there are only kits which include rails. On the BH site there is a hd100 kit with just the matte box and french flag, but I'm not sure that's the correct one either.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._Box_with.html

Is that the one you've got or do you have another model number I should be looking for?

Thanks very much for your help. I'll be ordering your DVD shortly too. I'm happy to get the NTSC one but is the PAL version due out soon?

Cheers,

Dan
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 12:33 AM   #4
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The Chrosziel 450 is the one I'm thinking of but once you have the rails (assuming rails from another manufacturer like Cavision) any matte box that fits 15mm diameter x 60mm rails (a.k.a. mini rails) will work. You don't need a "kit" specific to the camera. It looks like B&H doesn't sell any Chrosziel matte boxes without a support system. That's too bad.

Unfortunately chrosziel.com is "under construction" at the moment.

As for the question about a PAL version of the DVD we're just going through the motions of adding as many extra subtitle languages as possible to the PAL version before a place a big replication order. I want to get it right the first time out and have a large international reach.
The whole DVD is progressively encoded in 24P so even the NTSC version holds up well on PAL DVD players capable of cross-conversion. It's only 100 lines difference after all!
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 03:00 PM   #5
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Here's what I'm ordering:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html

It's been a long time coming, but if you can find a better piece of kit for the price then let me know before Friday:)
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 07:50 PM   #6
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Here's what I'm ordering:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html

It's been a long time coming, but if you can find a better piece of kit for the price then let me know before Friday:)
WoW! That swing away matte box for $595 looks awesome. I can't even fathom how they can sell it for that price. Too bad about the 60 day wait after ordering though.
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Old June 22nd, 2008, 09:24 PM   #7
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Thanks Liam,

Whenever I saw the name redrock, I automatically thought of hardware specifically for the Red camera system and didn't even bother looking into it. So, back to square one. I'm having a very hard time trying to find the Chrosziel 450 matte box without a rail kit anyway.

On the redrock, is the 'swing away arm' that part on the side? Is that for mounting additional hardware?

Am I missing something here? suddenly I'm looking at something about $1000 cheaper with seemingly more features and from the reviews I've found, decent build quality. Is there something not so obvious I need to know about the redrock? Light leaks around the filters or lack of proper coating inside the matte box?

Anyway, it looks like my order will be:

Redrock microMattebox Deluxe bundle
82mm to 72mm step down ring
Cavision RS-1525 Rods
Cavision RSPU Plate

Does that all seem ok?

Thanks again both Tim and Liam,

Dan
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 03:45 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by Liam Hall View Post
Here's what I'm ordering:

http://www.redrockmicro.com/microMattebox.html

It's been a long time coming, but if you can find a better piece of kit for the price then let me know before Friday:)
Nice find Liam. I guess won't find anything cheaper by friday fella.
Might you post pics when it's fully attached etc?

Here's a matte-box novice question - would this work with a 35 mm adaptor and/or wide angle adaptors etc?

Good luck with your purchases Daniel.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 06:02 AM   #9
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Too bad about the 60 day wait after ordering though.
Not for those of us on the short list;)
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 06:19 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Daniel Wilson View Post

Am I missing something here? suddenly I'm looking at something about $1000 cheaper with seemingly more features and from the reviews I've found, decent build quality. Is there something not so obvious I need to know about the redrock? Light leaks around the filters or lack of proper coating inside the matte box?

Anyway, it looks like my order will be:

Redrock microMattebox Deluxe bundle
82mm to 72mm step down ring
Cavision RS-1525 Rods
Cavision RSPU Plate

Does that all seem ok?

Thanks again both Tim and Liam,
Hi Daniel, no you're not missing something. It really is that cheap.

They also sell the rails and plates. I already own those as well as an M2 adapter and follow focus unit and can vouch for their build quality and robustness. Their customer services is excellent too.

I should add, I'm pretty sure you don't a step-down ring as it uses rails to connect to the camera and rubber hoods to light-seal the lens.
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Last edited by Liam Hall; June 23rd, 2008 at 08:02 AM.
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 06:25 AM   #11
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Here's a matte-box novice question - would this work with a 35 mm adaptor and/or wide angle adaptors etc?
Yes it would. That's the main reason they developed it. You need rails though.

If you're thinking of getting one I can recommend the M2 (as well as the Brevis). I'm more of a director than a DOP and only self-shoot about a quarter of my jobs these days, so if I can make it work it must be easy!

Here's what I did in about two hours last Thursday, a solo artist shot by a one man band!

http://www.liamhall.net/Aint%20No%20Cut%203.mp4
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 07:01 AM   #12
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Yes it would. That's the main reason they developed it. You need rails though.

If you're thinking of getting one I can recommend the M2 (as well as the Brevis). I'm more of a director than a DOP and only self-shoot about a quarter of my jobs these days, so if I can make it work it must be easy!

Here's what I did in about two hours last Thursday, a solo artist shot by a one man band!

http://www.liamhall.net/Aint%20No%20Cut%203.mp4
The M2/Brevis over the SGRPO or Letus etc?
I must admit it's a little harder to source JVC adaptable accessories in the UK so it's good to hear what fellow UK HD100'ers are using. It's possible I may go that route (35mm adaptor, or perhaps Wide Angle adaptor) for an upcoming film project, but it will come down to funds....anyway, I'm veering off topic.
* Liam - that link is sending me to a huge page of text/hieroglyphics!?!
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 07:50 AM   #13
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The M2/Brevis over the SGRPO or Letus etc?
I must admit it's a little harder to source JVC adaptable accessories in the UK so it's good to hear what fellow UK HD100'ers are using. It's possible I may go that route (35mm adaptor, or perhaps Wide Angle adaptor) for an upcoming film project, but it will come down to funds....anyway, I'm veering off topic.
* Liam - that link is sending me to a huge page of text/hieroglyphics!?!
I haven't tried the SGPRO or Letus, so I can't really comment.

Sorry about that link, I upgraded to QuickTime 7.5 last week and since then I'm having encoding issues!

Try the .mov instead;

http://www.liamhall.net/Aint%20No%20Cut%203.mov
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 08:45 AM   #14
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I haven't tried the SGPRO or Letus, so I can't really comment.

Sorry about that link, I upgraded to QuickTime 7.5 last week and since then I'm having encoding issues!

Try the .mov instead;

http://www.liamhall.net/Aint%20No%20Cut%203.mov
Liam - it looks fantastic. Is there a dash of Macro use in there too?
I know there's a debate over whether or not you should use shallow depth of field/35mm, but when it's used it can really transcend images.
I'd also like a wide angle adaptor (cheaper option) to go alongside a 35mm adaptor and lens...fairly sure I'd be content then :)
Is the M2/Brevis combi heavy enough that it requires the rails?
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Old June 23rd, 2008, 02:11 PM   #15
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Liam - it looks fantastic. Is there a dash of Macro use in there too?
I know there's a debate over whether or not you should use shallow depth of field/35mm, but when it's used it can really transcend images.
I'd also like a wide angle adaptor (cheaper option) to go alongside a 35mm adaptor and lens...fairly sure I'd be content then :)
Is the M2/Brevis combi heavy enough that it requires the rails?
David,

The M2 and Brevis are two different makes of 35mm adapter and yes you do need rails.

I didn't use macro in video, I just very shot very tight (because I had to!).

35mm lens adapters aren't the be all and end all but used for the right application they're great. I often use the pro35 when I'm shooting full HD but I'm just as happy hiring in the 13x wide-angle zoom for my HD100 or shooting with my M2 and a bunch of really old Nikon glass.

I've never really got on all that well with the wide angle adapters as I don't like chromatic aberration. I can sell you my Red eye if you like - I only used it twice!

Cheers,

Liam.
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