Looking for a good deal on an entry level PL mount lens... at DVinfo.net

John-Paul Bonadonna · August 14th, 2008, 09:08 PM

We've received our JVC 200, we've got the PL adapter... now we just need a PL lens. eBay currently has a few high-end models, we're looking for something to just get rolling.

Please email me at jpbonadonna@mediastreet.ca

Steve Oakley · August 15th, 2008, 09:15 AM

there really isn't such a thing because its not a consumer market. the cheap lenses are older ones often from the 60's and 70's. if you like that look, this glass may work for you. if you want sharper and more contrasty images, its new glass.

also blame RED for this. a year or two ago 35mm primes where really cheap on ebay, now they have kind of gone price crazy. the most interesting part - canon and nikon still camera glass often out performs the much larger cine glass. the only advantage to the cine glass, besides how impressive it looks, is the longer 270deg focus range, and often somewhat close focusing. however, if you geared down a follow focus, this would be something of a moot point.

Steve Phillipps · August 15th, 2008, 09:21 AM

Try BB List or www.filmcamerakit.co.uk
If they don't need to cover Super 16 frame you'll have a better chance of cheap lenses as not covering S16 knocks down the value (things like Zeiss 8mm and the 10-100 T3, maybe Angenieux 9-50). Also Arriflex & Angenieux to Zeiss & ZGC Visual Products sells Used Motion Picture Equipment always have a lot of kit, friendly professional bunch too.
Steve

Tim Dashwood · August 15th, 2008, 03:07 PM

If you really want "entry level" PL mount lenses you might want to look at Russian conversions. I bought a 10-100 Kinor that had been converted from Kinor16 mount for $300. The lens was actually brand-new, included a 7.5x wide converter, back of lens filters, and came in a super-cool gray wooden box. (and no the lens doesn't need to cover Super-16 BUT you may see some slight vignetting in the Russian optics.)
There are a few camera shops in Europe who specialize in Russian conversions.

The best thing to do though is rent. Why bother spending thousands to buy a few lenses when you can rent properly maintained glass for $50-$100/day (most Zeiss primes.) Since you're in Ontario check out the lens rental catalogues for PS Productions, Clairmont Camera or Complete Film Rentals in Toronto.

John-Paul Bonadonna · August 15th, 2008, 05:14 PM

Appreciate everyone's responses. In fact Tim, your work with that Russian lens was presented to us during a sales visit (the 'Boom Dah' video) and well, we now own a JVC HD200 - I hope you get your cut ;)

I also created a previous posted about using FD lenses, and perhaps that will be worth investigating as someone has indicated there is an adapter that will work. I appreciate all your responses!

This camera has re-energized my desire to shoot, and the contributions of dedicated people like Tim and others are responsible for that.

Steve Oakley · August 15th, 2008, 07:09 PM

you mean like this

50mm lens on HD100

basically I had to modifiy the lens a bit and add a 1/3" lens mount flange to the back of the canon lens. wasn't simple, but it does focus to infinity. bottom line is the stock lens is sharper / cleaner / much less CA then the direct mount canon lens, at least the 50 1.8. I've got a 50 1.4 which should be better glass, but its a completely different bit of guts and even mount - metal vs plastic. different wiring of the iris springs ( which I fixed ). not a easy job.
there are nikon adaptors, but any direct mount glass is going to equal the native lens so a 50mm still camera lens is the same as 50mm on the stock lens, somewhat telephoto.

John-Paul Bonadonna · August 15th, 2008, 08:49 PM

Wow, that's REALLY entry level. We've already spent $4000 for the adapter, I just want a lens to put on it! :)

jpb

Tim Dashwood · August 15th, 2008, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John-Paul Bonadonna

Appreciate everyone's responses. In fact Tim, your work with that Russian lens was presented to us during a sales visit (the 'Boom Dah' video) and well, we now own a JVC HD200 - I hope you get your cut ;)

Glad to hear that. I bought my lens from lens craftsman Sergey Kravchenco in St. Petersburg. He is a well known Russian lens specialist. The lens is a Kinor 16OPF12-1.
The lens is not perfect. It doesn't hold perfect backfocus throughout its zoom but it gives me a unique look when I need it and it was well worth what I paid for it.
It is a little heavy and long to throw on the end of the HZ-CA13U so you will want to purchase a lens support to mount on your rods.
If you want to research the Russian lens market you should check out the Russian lens forum on Cinematography.

Craig Chartier · August 18th, 2008, 01:11 PM

looking for clarification on this issue, so I understand that this tube works only with cine glass cut for 16mm. while any PL mount would fit on the tube, the angle of view will only cover for the 16mm glass ??/ correct. so buying PL s for 35mm is a waste of money.

Claude Mangold · August 19th, 2008, 08:59 AM

craig, the jvc adapter also works with 35mm lenses, we tried this with a Zeiss prime recently. but the result still is that 16mm/betacam look and dof, not the 35mm characteristics.

Craig Chartier · August 19th, 2008, 03:09 PM

Correct. You can mount any PL mount lens up, however the adapter covers for S16. so A 35mm PL prime (say a 50mm) will give you a preceived viewing angle of a much longer lens. I believe,

You are also correct that this tube is not a relay, so you do not achieve any shallow DOF. So what would you gain by getting this tube and then looking for pricey glass, when I think a Mini 35 adapter, mounted directly to the body, with a good ole Nikon set of primes would give you a better "look" ??

Liam Hall · August 20th, 2008, 04:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig Chartier

Correct. You can mount any PL mount lens up, however the adapter covers for S16. so A 35mm PL prime (say a 50mm) will give you a preceived viewing angle of a much longer lens. I believe,

You are also correct that this tube is not a relay, so you do not achieve any shallow DOF. So what would you gain by getting this tube and then looking for pricey glass, when I think a Mini 35 adapter, mounted directly to the body, with a good ole Nikon set of primes would give you a better "look" ??

No, that's wrong. The HZ-CA13U is a true optical relay system. You will get the DOF as set on the PL lens.

The main differences with using a 35mm lens as opposed to S16 are the crop factor (ie the Angle-Of-View will be smaller on the adapter) and the weight! You will though, be using the sweet spot of the lens.

Take a look at this chart:

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101683

Tim Dashwood · August 20th, 2008, 10:19 AM

Just to clarify Liam's post.

Yes. The HZ-CA13U is a relay... but unlike the competitors it does not use a ground-glass. It is purely optical.

The optical effects of a PL lens on the HZ-CA13U are identical to placing the same lens on a 16mm film camera.
If you choose to use the same circle of confusion as 16mm you can read the same depth of field charts.

And yes any PL lens or accessory will work. Focal length is focal length. Just keep in mind the smaller 16mm "gate" size.

Claude Mangold · August 20th, 2008, 11:13 AM

The HZ-CA13U is a technical masterpiece, and it's easy to use, light, compact, no moving parts, no power demands, little or no f-stop loss (unlike the mini-35 which is none of this and which i am forced to use often, alas). But it's "only" S16-like, in the end.

So why aren't those brilliant JVC engineers coming up with an optical 35mm-adapter (or near that)? Are the technical requirements too impossible ? Or maybe possible but much too costly?

Craig Chartier · August 20th, 2008, 02:26 PM

thanks for the link to the ref chart. This "tube type " relay is nothing new. several years back at NAB Angenieux had the same thing mounted on the f900 for use with PL primes. It didn't have the same "look" when viewing the footage as you would want from this type of glass either, also the viewfinder did not invert the image on the f900, Anyway the PRO35 came out and that seemed to kill off this type of relay for 2/3 chip sets. the Pro35 was giving the "look" that everyone seemed to be wanting.

August 14th, 2008, 09:08 PM	#1
John-Paul Bonadonna Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Posts: 47	Looking for a good deal on an entry level PL mount lens... We've received our JVC 200, we've got the PL adapter... now we just need a PL lens. eBay currently has a few high-end models, we're looking for something to just get rolling. Please email me at jpbonadonna@mediastreet.ca Last edited by John-Paul Bonadonna; August 15th, 2008 at 07:25 AM.

August 15th, 2008, 03:07 PM	#4
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	If you really want "entry level" PL mount lenses you might want to look at Russian conversions. I bought a 10-100 Kinor that had been converted from Kinor16 mount for $300. The lens was actually brand-new, included a 7.5x wide converter, back of lens filters, and came in a super-cool gray wooden box. (and no the lens doesn't need to cover Super-16 BUT you may see some slight vignetting in the Russian optics.) There are a few camera shops in Europe who specialize in Russian conversions. The best thing to do though is rent. Why bother spending thousands to buy a few lenses when you can rent properly maintained glass for $50-$100/day (most Zeiss primes.) Since you're in Ontario check out the lens rental catalogues for PS Productions, Clairmont Camera or Complete Film Rentals in Toronto. __________________ Tim Dashwood

August 15th, 2008, 05:14 PM	#5
John-Paul Bonadonna Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Posts: 47	Thanks! Appreciate everyone's responses. In fact Tim, your work with that Russian lens was presented to us during a sales visit (the 'Boom Dah' video) and well, we now own a JVC HD200 - I hope you get your cut ;) I also created a previous posted about using FD lenses, and perhaps that will be worth investigating as someone has indicated there is an adapter that will work. I appreciate all your responses! This camera has re-energized my desire to shoot, and the contributions of dedicated people like Tim and others are responsible for that.

August 15th, 2008, 08:49 PM	#7
John-Paul Bonadonna Regular Crew Join Date: May 2008 Location: Windsor, ON, Canada Posts: 47	Whoa! Wow, that's REALLY entry level. We've already spent $4000 for the adapter, I just want a lens to put on it! :) jpb

August 20th, 2008, 10:19 AM	#13
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Just to clarify Liam's post. Yes. The HZ-CA13U is a relay... but unlike the competitors it does not use a ground-glass. It is purely optical. The optical effects of a PL lens on the HZ-CA13U are identical to placing the same lens on a 16mm film camera. If you choose to use the same circle of confusion as 16mm you can read the same depth of field charts. And yes any PL lens or accessory will work. Focal length is focal length. Just keep in mind the smaller 16mm "gate" size. __________________ Tim Dashwood

August 15th, 2008, 09:15 AM	#2
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	there really isn't such a thing because its not a consumer market. the cheap lenses are older ones often from the 60's and 70's. if you like that look, this glass may work for you. if you want sharper and more contrasty images, its new glass. also blame RED for this. a year or two ago 35mm primes where really cheap on ebay, now they have kind of gone price crazy. the most interesting part - canon and nikon still camera glass often out performs the much larger cine glass. the only advantage to the cine glass, besides how impressive it looks, is the longer 270deg focus range, and often somewhat close focusing. however, if you geared down a follow focus, this would be something of a moot point.

August 15th, 2008, 09:21 AM	#3
Steve Phillipps Inner Circle Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Wales Posts: 2,130	Try BB List or www.filmcamerakit.co.uk If they don't need to cover Super 16 frame you'll have a better chance of cheap lenses as not covering S16 knocks down the value (things like Zeiss 8mm and the 10-100 T3, maybe Angenieux 9-50). Also Arriflex & Angenieux to Zeiss & ZGC Visual Products sells Used Motion Picture Equipment always have a lot of kit, friendly professional bunch too. Steve

August 15th, 2008, 07:09 PM	#6
Steve Oakley Trustee Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 1,158	you mean like this 50mm lens on HD100 basically I had to modifiy the lens a bit and add a 1/3" lens mount flange to the back of the canon lens. wasn't simple, but it does focus to infinity. bottom line is the stock lens is sharper / cleaner / much less CA then the direct mount canon lens, at least the 50 1.8. I've got a 50 1.4 which should be better glass, but its a completely different bit of guts and even mount - metal vs plastic. different wiring of the iris springs ( which I fixed ). not a easy job. there are nikon adaptors, but any direct mount glass is going to equal the native lens so a 50mm still camera lens is the same as 50mm on the stock lens, somewhat telephoto.

August 18th, 2008, 01:11 PM	#9
Craig Chartier DVi Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 374	looking for clarification on this issue, so I understand that this tube works only with cine glass cut for 16mm. while any PL mount would fit on the tube, the angle of view will only cover for the 16mm glass ??/ correct. so buying PL s for 35mm is a waste of money.

August 19th, 2008, 08:59 AM	#10
Claude Mangold Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Berlin and Geneva Posts: 259	craig, the jvc adapter also works with 35mm lenses, we tried this with a Zeiss prime recently. but the result still is that 16mm/betacam look and dof, not the 35mm characteristics.

August 19th, 2008, 03:09 PM	#11
Craig Chartier DVi Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 374	Correct. You can mount any PL mount lens up, however the adapter covers for S16. so A 35mm PL prime (say a 50mm) will give you a preceived viewing angle of a much longer lens. I believe, You are also correct that this tube is not a relay, so you do not achieve any shallow DOF. So what would you gain by getting this tube and then looking for pricey glass, when I think a Mini 35 adapter, mounted directly to the body, with a good ole Nikon set of primes would give you a better "look" ??

August 20th, 2008, 11:13 AM	#14
Claude Mangold Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Berlin and Geneva Posts: 259	The HZ-CA13U is a technical masterpiece, and it's easy to use, light, compact, no moving parts, no power demands, little or no f-stop loss (unlike the mini-35 which is none of this and which i am forced to use often, alas). But it's "only" S16-like, in the end. So why aren't those brilliant JVC engineers coming up with an optical 35mm-adapter (or near that)? Are the technical requirements too impossible ? Or maybe possible but much too costly?

August 20th, 2008, 02:26 PM	#15
Craig Chartier DVi Contributor Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Austin Texas Posts: 374	thanks for the link to the ref chart. This "tube type " relay is nothing new. several years back at NAB Angenieux had the same thing mounted on the f900 for use with PL primes. It didn't have the same "look" when viewing the footage as you would want from this type of glass either, also the viewfinder did not invert the image on the f900, Anyway the PRO35 came out and that seemed to kill off this type of relay for 2/3 chip sets. the Pro35 was giving the "look" that everyone seemed to be wanting.