JVC100 & Final Cut Pro... Questions at DVinfo.net

John Vincent · October 6th, 2008, 08:37 AM

I thought I'd start this thread in the JVC section (versus the editing boards)... I need some help guys. For the last year, I've been shooting a full length film on the JVC 100. I'm very pleased with the camera and the results - very cinematic, very close to Super 16 mm.

But the problem is my computer (or at least my ability to use it) - I've been using a PC based editing system (Premiere Pro w/Cineform) and I've had almost non-stop problems with it. So many that at this point, I'm about to shoot the damn thing. I'm not a computer savy guy, & I'm sure some of the problems are that I just don't don't know enough about PCs to fix the thing right - that said, I've had guys who are fix it, only to have more problems. Either way, it's either spend a lot more money on the system & tech help, or move on to Macs.

SO, my question is this: Can you (assuming a newer Mac, fast Raids, & newest version of Final Cut Pro) edit footage shot on a JVC 100 right out of the box?

Thanks for any help -

john
(pulling last hair out of his head)

Mat Thompson · October 6th, 2008, 08:44 AM

I'm about to try for the very first time tonight!

So I will let you know :-)

Shaun Roemich · October 6th, 2008, 08:53 AM

My issues with the 200Ub and FCP 6.0.3 using 60P have been:
- broken timecode ALL over the place bringing FCP to a screeching halt (this is "perceived" broken TC by FCP NOT occurring at start/stop points). I now capture entire tapes using the HDV to ProRes preset which captures entire tapes just like Capture Now.
- my external Firewire capture drive is problematic with regards to mounting AND recognizing the camera. I need to cold start the Mac, wait for the drive to spin up fully and then QUICKLY fire up the camera. Sometimes this takes 5 - 8 times. Sometimes the drive doesn't mount, sometimes the drive mounts but FCP doesn't recognize the camera, sometimes I get things just right and it works.
- FCP also doesn't seem to like more than 1000 clips. It refuses to capture anything now that I have a ton of clips in my project so I now capture in a NEW capture project and just import the files as necessary

I use ProRes422 as a codec and love it. At 60P, I'm using about 1GB per minute of footage captured but I love the responsiveness and quality.

All in all, I love the combination when I get it working. It's just Kludgy.

Justin Ferar · October 6th, 2008, 01:15 PM

I used to do what Shaun does (capture whole tapes as ProRes) but FCP was finally updated to capture 720p60 as HDV and it works fine for me. Sometimes a take is broken up into two clips even though there is no start/stop but I have found that the reason is that you need to keep the heads as clean as possible (I use the BR-HD50 deck). Otherwise the slightest disturbance will cause a take to be broken up into smaller clips.

So everything works fine for me shooting at 24, 30, and 60 fps- using HD200's and the HD50 deck via firewire and FCP (everything updated).

MacPro (8 core) and a La Cie Biggest S2S 2.5 TB.

This system is used 8 hours, every day, 5 days a week.

John Vincent · October 6th, 2008, 01:50 PM

As a note, the film is shot at 24p (or 23.97 - whatever the heck the number is).

Will that make a difference?

john

Justin Ferar · October 6th, 2008, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Vincent

As a note, the film is shot at 24p (or 23.97 - whatever the heck the number is).

Will that make a difference?

john

No. When we say 24 we really mean 23.97 in the video world.

John Vincent · October 6th, 2008, 02:17 PM

Will I need the "ClipWrap" m2t to Quicktime HDV wrapper? Whatever that is....

:)

john

Greg Corke · October 6th, 2008, 02:57 PM

Hi John,

I, Unfortunately, do not have the answers to your questions but, like yourself, I am looking for a tenable work-flow using hd100 footage and the latest version of fcp.

I may be wrong here but my understanding of the HDV 24p option when using fcp is that it is classed as a trans-code and therefor potentially loses information, although how much I am not sure. Now the advantage of something like Clipwrap is that rather than trans-coding it repackages the .m2ts file into a quicktime container without trans-coding. This then gives you a like for like file that fcp will be able to read.

However, as things stand at the moment I have only been able to use Clipwrap successfully on .m2ts created on my drhd100. Footage I have converted through the dvhscap route has unfortunately been a bit troublesome with regard to Clipwrap. Hopefully Mike will be able to sort this out, fingers crossed. In the meantime I am tempted to look further into the sheervideo option. Shame apple can't build this into fcp

Regards, Greg

Justin Ferar · October 6th, 2008, 04:14 PM

Just to clarify...

When you digitize as HDV via firewire, FCP just wraps the M2T file into Quicktime. There is no transcoding! It is fully editable in the timeline- just like DV.

I haven't looked into Clipwrap yet (because I don't need it) but I suspect it's more for those who shoot directly to disk or flash cards as some of those devices don't have the ability to record a .mov file, just M2T.

Shaun Roemich · October 6th, 2008, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Justin Ferar

I used to do what Shaun does (capture whole tapes as ProRes) but FCP was finally updated to capture 720p60 as HDV and it works fine for me.

I should have noted I started a large paying project before FCP & QT were updated and common wisdom is DON'T upgrade in the middle of a project. I look forward to a stress-free day as Justin suggests, I'm just not there until I clear this project. Thanks for the input, Justin.

Robert Rogoz · October 6th, 2008, 10:46 PM

I had hellish time capturing my footage last weekend. I did this for the first time with this camera as a deck (a had an access to a deck before, not anymore). Anyway- the program was not recognizing my camera at first. After capturing in Apple intermediate codec (looked i would have to render every clip in this setting) I was able to switch to 720/30p and capture the tapes. The next day- the same story. What are the correct settings for 720/30p in FCP6?
BTW stupid question: what would be the advantage of capturing in ProRes 422 instead in 720/30p?
Interestingly enough my 720/24p was done the first try and the computer recognized the deck first try.

John Vincent · October 7th, 2008, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mat Thompson

I'm about to try for the very first time tonight!

So I will let you know :-)

How did it go?

john

Justin Ferar · October 7th, 2008, 02:47 PM

Keep in mind that you need to have everything plugged in and turned on before you open up FCP. For example, FCP wont recognize the deck if you just turn it on and try to digitize. Assuming firewire is already plugged in, you have to quit FCP, turn on the deck/camera, then open FCP, then digitize. Works every time.

FCP now has all the HDV presets in the easy setup menu.

John Vincent · October 7th, 2008, 02:54 PM

So why would any one need clip wrap?

john

Christopher Glavan · October 8th, 2008, 03:45 AM

I've had some success with my HD100 and FCP 6.0.4.

I shoot wedding videos, mainly in HDV 24p, using ProRes 422 to ingest. My understanding is that capturing via component using ProRes you get a true 4:2:2 colorspace from the HD100. Only issue I had was incorrectly formatting my scratch disk as NTFS (don't ask me why), so my video clips were being capped at 4gb. Fixed that little faux pas and have had no issues with timecode breaks, even over very long clips (30 minutes+).

I would think ClipWrap would be mostly for people using Avid, Vegas, or Premiere and using something like AVCVideoCap to capture just the raw m2t file, assuming they're using some version that doesn't have native HDV codecs.

And by the way, what's so great about DVHSCap?? I tried it and no matter what I do it doesn't want to recognize my camera- or my vhs player for that matter.

October 6th, 2008, 08:37 AM	#1
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	JVC100 & Final Cut Pro... Questions I thought I'd start this thread in the JVC section (versus the editing boards)... I need some help guys. For the last year, I've been shooting a full length film on the JVC 100. I'm very pleased with the camera and the results - very cinematic, very close to Super 16 mm. But the problem is my computer (or at least my ability to use it) - I've been using a PC based editing system (Premiere Pro w/Cineform) and I've had almost non-stop problems with it. So many that at this point, I'm about to shoot the damn thing. I'm not a computer savy guy, & I'm sure some of the problems are that I just don't don't know enough about PCs to fix the thing right - that said, I've had guys who are fix it, only to have more problems. Either way, it's either spend a lot more money on the system & tech help, or move on to Macs. SO, my question is this: Can you (assuming a newer Mac, fast Raids, & newest version of Final Cut Pro) edit footage shot on a JVC 100 right out of the box? Thanks for any help - john (pulling last hair out of his head)

October 6th, 2008, 08:53 AM	#3
Shaun Roemich Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia (formerly Winnipeg, Manitoba) Canada Posts: 4,088	My issues with the 200Ub and FCP 6.0.3 using 60P have been: - broken timecode ALL over the place bringing FCP to a screeching halt (this is "perceived" broken TC by FCP NOT occurring at start/stop points). I now capture entire tapes using the HDV to ProRes preset which captures entire tapes just like Capture Now. - my external Firewire capture drive is problematic with regards to mounting AND recognizing the camera. I need to cold start the Mac, wait for the drive to spin up fully and then QUICKLY fire up the camera. Sometimes this takes 5 - 8 times. Sometimes the drive doesn't mount, sometimes the drive mounts but FCP doesn't recognize the camera, sometimes I get things just right and it works. - FCP also doesn't seem to like more than 1000 clips. It refuses to capture anything now that I have a ton of clips in my project so I now capture in a NEW capture project and just import the files as necessary I use ProRes422 as a codec and love it. At 60P, I'm using about 1GB per minute of footage captured but I love the responsiveness and quality. All in all, I love the combination when I get it working. It's just Kludgy. __________________ Shaun C. Roemich Road Dog Media - Vancouver, BC - Videographer - Webcaster www.roaddogmedia.ca Blog: http://roaddogmedia.wordpress.com/

October 6th, 2008, 01:15 PM	#4
Justin Ferar Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Larkspur, CA Posts: 378	I used to do what Shaun does (capture whole tapes as ProRes) but FCP was finally updated to capture 720p60 as HDV and it works fine for me. Sometimes a take is broken up into two clips even though there is no start/stop but I have found that the reason is that you need to keep the heads as clean as possible (I use the BR-HD50 deck). Otherwise the slightest disturbance will cause a take to be broken up into smaller clips. So everything works fine for me shooting at 24, 30, and 60 fps- using HD200's and the HD50 deck via firewire and FCP (everything updated). MacPro (8 core) and a La Cie Biggest S2S 2.5 TB. This system is used 8 hours, every day, 5 days a week. __________________ www.justinferar.com www.weddingsonfilm.com

October 6th, 2008, 04:14 PM	#9
Justin Ferar Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Larkspur, CA Posts: 378	Just to clarify... When you digitize as HDV via firewire, FCP just wraps the M2T file into Quicktime. There is no transcoding! It is fully editable in the timeline- just like DV. I haven't looked into Clipwrap yet (because I don't need it) but I suspect it's more for those who shoot directly to disk or flash cards as some of those devices don't have the ability to record a .mov file, just M2T. __________________ www.justinferar.com www.weddingsonfilm.com

October 6th, 2008, 10:46 PM	#11
Robert Rogoz Major Player Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 457	capturing from GY-HD100 I had hellish time capturing my footage last weekend. I did this for the first time with this camera as a deck (a had an access to a deck before, not anymore). Anyway- the program was not recognizing my camera at first. After capturing in Apple intermediate codec (looked i would have to render every clip in this setting) I was able to switch to 720/30p and capture the tapes. The next day- the same story. What are the correct settings for 720/30p in FCP6? BTW stupid question: what would be the advantage of capturing in ProRes 422 instead in 720/30p? Interestingly enough my 720/24p was done the first try and the computer recognized the deck first try.

October 6th, 2008, 08:44 AM	#2
Mat Thompson Trustee Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Kent UK Posts: 1,397	I'm about to try for the very first time tonight! So I will let you know :-)

October 6th, 2008, 01:50 PM	#5
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	As a note, the film is shot at 24p (or 23.97 - whatever the heck the number is). Will that make a difference? john

October 6th, 2008, 02:17 PM	#7
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Will I need the "ClipWrap" m2t to Quicktime HDV wrapper? Whatever that is.... :) john

October 6th, 2008, 02:57 PM	#8
Greg Corke Major Player Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London, UK Posts: 245	Hi John, I, Unfortunately, do not have the answers to your questions but, like yourself, I am looking for a tenable work-flow using hd100 footage and the latest version of fcp. I may be wrong here but my understanding of the HDV 24p option when using fcp is that it is classed as a trans-code and therefor potentially loses information, although how much I am not sure. Now the advantage of something like Clipwrap is that rather than trans-coding it repackages the .m2ts file into a quicktime container without trans-coding. This then gives you a like for like file that fcp will be able to read. However, as things stand at the moment I have only been able to use Clipwrap successfully on .m2ts created on my drhd100. Footage I have converted through the dvhscap route has unfortunately been a bit troublesome with regard to Clipwrap. Hopefully Mike will be able to sort this out, fingers crossed. In the meantime I am tempted to look further into the sheervideo option. Shame apple can't build this into fcp Regards, Greg

October 7th, 2008, 02:47 PM	#13
Justin Ferar Major Player Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Larkspur, CA Posts: 378	Keep in mind that you need to have everything plugged in and turned on before you open up FCP. For example, FCP wont recognize the deck if you just turn it on and try to digitize. Assuming firewire is already plugged in, you have to quit FCP, turn on the deck/camera, then open FCP, then digitize. Works every time. FCP now has all the HDV presets in the easy setup menu. __________________ www.justinferar.com www.weddingsonfilm.com

October 7th, 2008, 02:54 PM	#14
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	So why would any one need clip wrap? john

October 8th, 2008, 03:45 AM	#15
Christopher Glavan Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Redding, CA Posts: 260	I've had some success with my HD100 and FCP 6.0.4. I shoot wedding videos, mainly in HDV 24p, using ProRes 422 to ingest. My understanding is that capturing via component using ProRes you get a true 4:2:2 colorspace from the HD100. Only issue I had was incorrectly formatting my scratch disk as NTFS (don't ask me why), so my video clips were being capped at 4gb. Fixed that little faux pas and have had no issues with timecode breaks, even over very long clips (30 minutes+). I would think ClipWrap would be mostly for people using Avid, Vegas, or Premiere and using something like AVCVideoCap to capture just the raw m2t file, assuming they're using some version that doesn't have native HDV codecs. And by the way, what's so great about DVHSCap?? I tried it and no matter what I do it doesn't want to recognize my camera- or my vhs player for that matter.