SD capabilities at DVinfo.net

Dane Maxwell · June 7th, 2005, 06:52 AM

Right, so this camera is a great HDV cam. But i still and for a long time to come shall still shoot SD.
Now in the proHD magazine [HIGHWAY] i recieved in the post, says that the HD100 produces higher resolution images in SD mode, but they dont quote figures.

Does any one know how many effective TV lines the hd100 will shoot when in SD mode ???
Thats about it. hope someone will start a new thread as soon as someone has hd100 footage on tape !!!!
my UK dealer is tellling me the 2nd week of JUNE !!!!!!! thats so close !!!!

Louis Quin · June 8th, 2005, 11:22 AM

I was looking at the JVC website specifications page for this camera and it shows some of the DV specs. But, I was wondering if the spec for 480/60P is actually 60 or if it was frame doubled from 30P or is it really 30P?

Barry Green · June 8th, 2005, 02:21 PM

Don't know, but I suspect it's genuine 60p. The earllier JVC HD1/HD10 actually shot at 60 progressive frames per second in its "SD" mode (had three modes, HD, "SD", and DV). SD was 60p at 720x480, using MPEG-2 compression. It seems reasonable to expect that they continued that mode forward on the HD100.

Thomas Smet · June 8th, 2005, 08:01 PM

Since this new camera adds true 24p I wonder if we could get 48p or if our only option is 24p, 30p, and 60p for 480 SD video. 60p isn't so bad. Thats 2.5x slow motion compared to 2.0x. It would be nice to have a few more options however.

Actually does JVC say anywhere if 24p SD is even supported? Maybe 24p only works with 720p.

Barry Green · June 8th, 2005, 10:06 PM

The technical info page looks like it's been updated:
http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/t...&feature_id=02

Yes, 24p is supported in DV mode. The specific modes they mention are:

HDV HD 24p
HDV HD 30p

HDV SD 60p (MPEG-2, 720x480, 60 progressive fps!)

DV 60i
DV 24P

(for those wondering, there's definitely no mention of PCM audio in HDV modes -- definitely compressed MPEG-1 Layer II audio when recording in HDV mode).

Looks like there may no longer be an option for "motion smoothing" in the 24p mode. The description page specifically states that motion smoothing is available in 30p/25p mode, but no mention for 24p.

Joe Carney · June 9th, 2005, 01:42 PM

If I read the specs right, the U version has similar features to the E version. Yippee. Finally. I'm in. And yes there is motion smoothing for 24p, along with25 and 30p. Kind of dumb if they offered for 25p and not 24p.

Louis Quin · June 9th, 2005, 09:41 PM

Thanks to all for the reply. I guess we'll see what this camera has when production models hit the streets.

One other question........where did they hide the film grain button?

Louis Quin · June 10th, 2005, 12:47 PM

On page 17 in the JVC color brochure there is a table of all the recording/playback formats. The 480p 60 is shown in the HDV section not in DV.
I wonder if this means MPEG2 rather than DV?

They also show 480i 60 and 480p 24, but no 480p 30 listed on the table.

Barry Green · June 10th, 2005, 01:12 PM

480/60p is most definitely MPEG-2, not DV. They also included this mode on their prior HD camera, the HD1/HD10. It's 4:2:0 720x480 at 60 progressive frames per second, compressed with MPEG-2.

Louis Quin · June 10th, 2005, 01:30 PM

Thanks for the clarification! I thought the 480p 60 was interesting for slow motion instead of the usual 60i or 30p. But doesn't MPEG-2 spoil this thought?

Barry Green · June 11th, 2005, 06:29 AM

Not necessarily. We'll have to see what the footage looks like. MPEG-2 can be fantastically efficient for some things. For the most part it depends on the bitrate that gets allocated to it -- more bits = more amazing capability. The knock against HDV has been that there just isn't enough bitrate to adequately handle changing conditions. But in SD mode, that may not be such an issue; if they assign the full 19-megabit rate, it might be okay.

720x480x60 = under 21 million pixels per second. 1280x720x30 = almost 28 million pixels per second. So theoretically you'll be getting more efficient compression in the SD/60p mode, presuming that the 19-megabit bitrate stays the same for both modes.

Obviously testing will reveal how useful the mode is. I'm assuming that for standard-def stuff, it'll likely be quite useful. Mixing it in with DV for SD may be a little problematical, since the DV footage will be 4:1:1 and the SD/60p footage will be 4:2:0. But once we get the camera and put it through its paces, the practical answers will be known.

June 7th, 2005, 06:52 AM	#1
Dane Maxwell Tourist Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 2	SD capabilities Right, so this camera is a great HDV cam. But i still and for a long time to come shall still shoot SD. Now in the proHD magazine [HIGHWAY] i recieved in the post, says that the HD100 produces higher resolution images in SD mode, but they dont quote figures. Does any one know how many effective TV lines the hd100 will shoot when in SD mode ??? Thats about it. hope someone will start a new thread as soon as someone has hd100 footage on tape !!!! my UK dealer is tellling me the 2nd week of JUNE !!!!!!! thats so close !!!!

June 8th, 2005, 11:22 AM	#2
Louis Quin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 18	I was looking at the JVC website specifications page for this camera and it shows some of the DV specs. But, I was wondering if the spec for 480/60P is actually 60 or if it was frame doubled from 30P or is it really 30P?

June 8th, 2005, 02:21 PM	#3
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Don't know, but I suspect it's genuine 60p. The earllier JVC HD1/HD10 actually shot at 60 progressive frames per second in its "SD" mode (had three modes, HD, "SD", and DV). SD was 60p at 720x480, using MPEG-2 compression. It seems reasonable to expect that they continued that mode forward on the HD100.

June 8th, 2005, 08:01 PM	#4
Thomas Smet Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,719	Since this new camera adds true 24p I wonder if we could get 48p or if our only option is 24p, 30p, and 60p for 480 SD video. 60p isn't so bad. Thats 2.5x slow motion compared to 2.0x. It would be nice to have a few more options however. Actually does JVC say anywhere if 24p SD is even supported? Maybe 24p only works with 720p.

June 8th, 2005, 10:06 PM	#5
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The technical info page looks like it's been updated: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/t...&feature_id=02 Yes, 24p is supported in DV mode. The specific modes they mention are: HDV HD 24p HDV HD 30p HDV SD 60p (MPEG-2, 720x480, 60 progressive fps!) DV 60i DV 24P (for those wondering, there's definitely no mention of PCM audio in HDV modes -- definitely compressed MPEG-1 Layer II audio when recording in HDV mode). Looks like there may no longer be an option for "motion smoothing" in the 24p mode. The description page specifically states that motion smoothing is available in 30p/25p mode, but no mention for 24p.

June 9th, 2005, 01:42 PM	#6
Joe Carney Inner Circle Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Centreville Va Posts: 1,828	If I read the specs right, the U version has similar features to the E version. Yippee. Finally. I'm in. And yes there is motion smoothing for 24p, along with25 and 30p. Kind of dumb if they offered for 25p and not 24p.

June 9th, 2005, 09:41 PM	#7
Louis Quin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 18	Thanks to all for the reply. I guess we'll see what this camera has when production models hit the streets. One other question........where did they hide the film grain button?

June 10th, 2005, 12:47 PM	#8
Louis Quin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 18	On page 17 in the JVC color brochure there is a table of all the recording/playback formats. The 480p 60 is shown in the HDV section not in DV. I wonder if this means MPEG2 rather than DV? They also show 480i 60 and 480p 24, but no 480p 30 listed on the table.

June 10th, 2005, 01:12 PM	#9
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	480/60p is most definitely MPEG-2, not DV. They also included this mode on their prior HD camera, the HD1/HD10. It's 4:2:0 720x480 at 60 progressive frames per second, compressed with MPEG-2.

June 10th, 2005, 01:30 PM	#10
Louis Quin New Boot Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Tyler, Texas Posts: 18	Thanks for the clarification! I thought the 480p 60 was interesting for slow motion instead of the usual 60i or 30p. But doesn't MPEG-2 spoil this thought?

June 11th, 2005, 06:29 AM	#11
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Not necessarily. We'll have to see what the footage looks like. MPEG-2 can be fantastically efficient for some things. For the most part it depends on the bitrate that gets allocated to it -- more bits = more amazing capability. The knock against HDV has been that there just isn't enough bitrate to adequately handle changing conditions. But in SD mode, that may not be such an issue; if they assign the full 19-megabit rate, it might be okay. 720x480x60 = under 21 million pixels per second. 1280x720x30 = almost 28 million pixels per second. So theoretically you'll be getting more efficient compression in the SD/60p mode, presuming that the 19-megabit bitrate stays the same for both modes. Obviously testing will reveal how useful the mode is. I'm assuming that for standard-def stuff, it'll likely be quite useful. Mixing it in with DV for SD may be a little problematical, since the DV footage will be 4:1:1 and the SD/60p footage will be 4:2:0. But once we get the camera and put it through its paces, the practical answers will be known.