HZ-CA13U PL adapter and "Custom" adapted lens compatibility

[Chad Haufschild]

So, I've been seeing a lot of lenses on Ebay by a company called Whitehouse Audio Visual. They have taken old Angenieux 16mm and Super16mm lenses and modified them to PL mount. What's strange is that in the item description they say, "NOT for use with the JVC HZ-CA13U PL adapter".

Here's a current example: PL Mount Super 16mm Digital 2k Angenieux Cine Zoom Lens - eBay (item 290387753622 end time Feb-02-10 16:18:12 PST)

I've emailed them about the statement and they say I need to ask JVC. JVC has not returned my emails.

Anyone have any idea why these lenses wouldn't work with JVC's adapter?

[Shaun Roemich]

If you take a look at the lens, the back side extends VERY far past the PL mount so you would run into problems with the lens extending too far into the adaptor.

I've wanted to buy that lens for a while for use with MY PL adaptor.

[Chad Haufschild]

Thanks, Shaun. I see your point. They have other lenses that don't seen to have as drastic an extension, but they site the same warning with those lenses as well.

I haven't yet picked up the HZ-CA13U. No use having it until I find a lens for it. This makes me curious to know if it works with any PL adapted lenses or if it works only with factory-originated PLs.

Perhaps it's simply a way for Whitehouse to minimize returns. If they can't test with the adapter just say it won't work. Problem solved. At any rate, maybe this isn't the $5000 investment I was hoping for. Perhaps it really a $6000 to $7000 deal.

[Claude Mangold]

Well, adapting 16mm lenses which are not PL is tricky since their build extends far past the mount into the 16mm-camera housing. I just ran into trouble with a beautiful Meteor lens and a M42 adapter.

I do not know if any of these lenses will fit the JVC adapter. Trouble is, if only recent PL lenses can be used, this means very expensive glass indeed. Like you, I have refrained from buying the JVC adapter because I am not certain that I could find real PL lenses at interesting prices.

I have used both the JVC and the P&S adapter, but only with 35mm cine lenses. Both are geat. That's a different story since these cine primes (usually Ultra-Primes) are rented on the production budgets. Whereas I was looking for a fixed-focus everyday solution for scouting, tests etc.

I may finally buy the P&S compact adapter, which allows the use of simple Nikons for everyday use and sophisticated glass for film shoots.

[Shaun Roemich]

Originally Posted by Chad Haufschild

This makes me curious to know if it works with any PL adapted lenses or if it works only with factory-originated PLs.

Tim Dashwood has a Russian Kinor lens that is adapted to PL mount so it CAN be possible but as Claude says, I'm not sure what the exact specifications to make it work are.

I bought mine with the intent of renting 16mm primes from the local ciné houses and eventually building up a stock pile of used budget lenses and possibly buying the RED prime set eventually. The economy being what it has been, that business model isn't working for me right now...

[Chad Haufschild]

Hmmm... Such a conundrum...

Unfortunately I'm geographically in a place where renting glass is tedious. I would have to have things shipped from Denver, Chicago or Minneapolis and my shooting schedules for long format work would cause even more issues. It makes more sense for me to buy, but buying with out knowing for sure whether or not a lens is going to work with the adapter also makes things difficult.

I have a guy that's offered to adapt an Arri Bayonette to PL for a pretty good price, but until I know the lens will work with the HZ-CA13U, I'm hesitant. Anyone using an adapted Angenieux 9.5-57mm T1.9?

[Tim Dashwood]

On the HZ-CA13U the depth to the first optical element from the flange is 54mm (which also happens to be the FFD of PL mount) so I can't imagine that any properly adapted bayonet mount (52mm FFD) or standard mount (also 52mm FFD) would not fit depth-wise. Maybe their PL mount isn't machined to fit the HZ-CA13U properly. I find that some PL mount lenses are a very tight fit on the HZ-CA13U (practically air-tight,) depending on the temperature.

There are lots of adapter options for Arri bayonet to PL mount. Some temporary and others permanent. Search around on google and you will find some interesting stuff.

[Chad Haufschild]

Tim, it's a pleasure. Loved your review of the HZ-CA13U.

Your response makes me feel pretty comfortable proceeding with a lens purchase. The guy selling the adapted Angenieux 9.5-57mm T1.9 is a pro with decades of experience. I'll send him the info you provided me. Thanks for your help.

[Kenneth Hale]

Hello, I will attempt to answers all of the questions tha I can about the lens in question, the PL mounted NOS 17.5-70mm lens, that we sell on Ebay:
(1) This lens gets an odd vignetting effect at longer focal lengths on this adapter, yet works on 16mm cameras, super 16mm cameras, the Red for 2K, and more cameras.
(2) This effet is possibly an exit pupil incompatability.
(3) I do not want to bash the JVC adapter, it is awesome with prime lenses, and no optical problems at all were seen when using 35mm zoom lenses.
(4) We tried several different types of 16mm PL mount zoom lenses in our shop when the customer drove out with his JVC Rig, they ALL had vignetting at longer focal lengths.
(5) Our PL mount is made under strict guidelines, it goes into the adapter just fine.
(6) Look into the corners of the pics on the review site, there are some examples of the vignetting problem right there, slight, but still there.
Thank you for your time.
Ken Hale

[Enrique Vega]

I just bought the HZ-CA13U through ebay for $399! What a deal for a $4,000+ list price. Interesting because the ebay store is an authorized JVC parts and accessories store and they had listed 6 of these NEW adapters as buy it now. Note that when I last looked, they still had 5 of them available. However, the listing expired without any more sales and now they are not listed. Maybe contact them directly if you are looking for one of these adapters.

Their ebay store:
items in JVC PARTS AND ACCESSORIES STORE store on eBay!

[Alex Humphrey]

FYI, JVC is still selling the HZ-CA13U in their outlet store for $398.00 I got mine a few weeks ago. need to hunt down some decent PL lenses though. Too bad Nikon 35mm can't be converted to PL for various reasons.

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[Craig Yanagi]

The HZ-CA13U is a very unique "tool" for digital cinematography in that it is truly designed for use with 16mm film primes. The whole concept behind the adapter was to enable photogs who own 16mm glass to be able to use them with our ProHD camcorders. The factory even enabled image rotation from the HD200 Series to help in post, and this capability has been carried through to our HM700 Series camcorders.

One of the unique characteristics of 16mm primes is that it has a longer "tail" in comparison to 35mm glass. As the HZ-CA13U is designed to accommodate the focal plane of 16mm glass the adapter can use 16mm, Super16 and 35mm without any issues. The field of view is also optomized for 16mm, so using lenses for larger image capture will result in shots tigher within the "circle of confusion" which some people call the "prime cut" of the glass.

Aside from the mechanics of the lenses, all primes, regardless of age or method of manufacture, have their own - what I like to call - "organic" look and feel, which is something you won't find with your typical ENG glass which is designed more for accuracy. I've often been told that a photog values their glass more than their cameras, and that many owned their 16mm primes, as each prime is a visual identity of the photog using it, helping to define each DP's signature look. This is the core of the HZ-CA13U's coming to being.

Technical accuracy aside, the HZ-CA13U was created out of passion for the craft and designed to enable photogs to express themselves with the glass they possessed, along with the "look" they considered to be their trademark with ProHD camcorders, and eventually with all 1/3" bayonet mount camcorders that followed. We hope that a few were able to accomplish this. We've seen some amazing images produced with so many different lenses, all of them having that unique "organic" look. And you can be sure that when these final units are gone, there will be no more.

[Bob Hart]

Craig. This is a pure curiosity question. Did the HZ-CA13U adaptor flow on from the optical adaptors built in to the old KY-F50 (2/3" onto 1/3") and KY-F32 (1/2" ONTO 1/3") camera heads?

[Craig Yanagi]

Bob,

I am not sure. I do know that the product was designed and created internally by JVC optical engineers. There are 12 elements in the HZCA13U, and it was specifically designed to enable the 3 CCD's of the ProHD camcorders to gather an image from glass originally designed to project an image on a single plane. My assumption is that a lens mount converter for box cameras would not have the sophisticated design of the HZ-CA13U, and would be more similar to an ACM-17 or ACM-12.

- Craig

[Bob Hart]

Whatever the tech, both products did deliver. The KY-F50 had great colour and contrast for its time. I was using one which I purchased ex-demo, ported into a PD150 in VTR mode for long telephoto shots of aircraft before I tried the groundglass adaptor route for HDV.

The camera did have a green channel fault which JVC Professional Australia fixed as a warranty, despite the camera being ex-demo and by then obsolete as HD was upon us. For after-sales service, one can't complain about that.