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Old August 25th, 2005, 01:34 AM   #1
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HD100 Vs. AVX102 (only cine-like features)

Hi everybody once more!

I am about to make a decision: Buying the new HD100 or the AVX102 (New PAL version). I will add later a Guerilla35/Micro35, 4X4 Matte box, focus puller, some filters, 35mm lenses and so on...

Main use will be:
1. Indie short films for me (student) & others (in SD or WMV HD @ 720p)
2. Videoclip / Events / Advertisement rental, all in SD or HD->SD (not HDTV yet round here!).

So...

Based on preliminary footage from HD100+Mini35 it is quite hard for me to make a decision since JVC's dont have all the cine tweaks (gamma, coloring...) that the AVX102 have, PLUS HDV uses GOP whereas DV is intraframe. I mean it looks gr8 but DVX+M35 still looks more film-like...

JVC's offers 720@30P but I'm worried about HOW it can pre-process the image on board... Not too mention a $ 2000+ difference between both... So I could shoot with the AVX for the next year & half and the sell it when P2 cards prices are down (HVX200 is out of question right now)...

Opinions are welcomed!

thx
L
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Old August 25th, 2005, 04:59 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luis Reggiardo
Hi everybody once more!

I am about to make a decision: Buying the new HD100 or the AVX102 (New PAL version). I will add later a Guerilla35/Micro35, 4X4 Matte box, focus puller, some filters, 35mm lenses and so on...

thx
L

You mean the DVX 100A, don't you?
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Old August 25th, 2005, 06:05 AM   #3
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I would go with the HD100 without shadow of doubt. Specially if you want to do jobs with it. It looks way more professional than a simple handheld camera. It also has all the basic controls laid out like a pro camera and is said to be better built than the DVX100 and the Z1. Your clients will be more impressed with it than if you should up with a handheld camera.
Besides, it seems to be the better camera anyway. Even if you shoot in SD only. It's also native 16:9.
About cine gamma and color, reading the HD100 manual, it does have them. Also, you can color correct the image in post and get any look you want. But if you want, I'm sure you can match the DVX100a look in camera. Have you read the manual? The HD100 has a lot of control. Way more than DVX100a, XL2 and even bigger cameras like the JVC DV5000. Check the manual up.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 09:14 AM   #4
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Dont know,

what are the differences between:

DVX100E PAL
DVX100AE / DVX102 PAL sold by Panasonic in australia and Europe eg.?
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Old August 25th, 2005, 10:17 AM   #5
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[QUOTE=Michael Maier]I would go with the HD100 without shadow of doubt. QUOTE]

I forgot! there is also the AVX100A + Andromeda from Reel Stream option (available dont know when) so u can have full RGB 4:4:4 at 1540x990 from SD PAL (check at: http://www.reel-stream.com/cap_hd )

L
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Old August 25th, 2005, 10:23 AM   #6
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so u can have full RGB 4:4:4 at 1540x990 from SD PAL
Except, of course, they're using 'pixel shift', so you don't have a true 4:4:4 signal in the first place. Also, I'd be surprised if the SD lens on the camera is good enough to get a real 1540x990 resolution.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 01:06 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Mark Grant
Except, of course, they're using 'pixel shift', so you don't have a true 4:4:4 signal in the first place. Also, I'd be surprised if the SD lens on the camera is good enough to get a real 1540x990 resolution.
The thing you guys are referring to is what got me interested in the GS400. It has the ability to take a 1152x864 photo to the memory card while you are filming.

I wonder if the SD card reader can be bypassed to get realtime capture? The USB 2.0 port on the camera draws images from the SD, so all that would have to be done is moving the connection to the other side of the card controller. You wouldn't have to drill any new holes and the GS400 does not use pixel shift, as it has 1 Megapixel CCDs.

I actually bought 2 SONY HC1000s because there was a dry spell on GS400 availability at the time I was ready to purchase. The HC1000s do not allow photos during filming like the GS400 does but it has the same CCDs and USB 2.0 port going to its memory stick.

I'd be afraid to open either camera, though.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 01:53 PM   #8
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[QUOTE=Luis Reggiardo]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maier
I would go with the HD100 without shadow of doubt. QUOTE]

I forgot! there is also the AVX100A + Andromeda from Reel Stream option (available dont know when) so u can have full RGB 4:4:4 at 1540x990 from SD PAL (check at: http://www.reel-stream.com/cap_hd )

L

I had never heard of this Andromeda device before. How does exactly work and what type of storage does it use? I find it hard to believe that it produces such amazing images for such low cost - why isn't everyone using already?
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Old August 25th, 2005, 02:20 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Dave Ferdinand
I had never heard of this Andromeda device before. How does exactly work and what type of storage does it use? I find it hard to believe that it produces such amazing images for such low cost - why isn't everyone using already?
Because a) it hasn't been released yet, and b) it's a $3000 modification to the camera, and c) it requires you to be cabled to a computer to record the footage. So it's not for every purpose. But they have sample footage on their website that looks quite impressive.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 04:37 PM   #10
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Well, that makes the camera the same price as an HD100U, and the footage looks better. The HDR is amazingly high. There's almost no overexposure. Being cabled to a laptop is easy and not too expensive now-a-days.

Is this some sort of secret camcorder manufacturers were hiding from us? Why didn't they implement the same - probably it would be a much cheaper coming directly from Panasonic, Sony, etc.

I'm defintely going to keep checking out their website for news... Not that it's a HD100U killer or anything, but sure seems like a solid alternative.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 07:59 PM   #11
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How are you going to use the andromeda system on a steadycam, or crane? Or on locations where power is not available? It will be a pain. If you are willing to be hooked to a PC at all times, you might as well use the uncompressed HD out from the HD100 and record that to a computer. I'm sure it will look much better, since it's real HD and not pixelshift. I have no idea of how much storage and PC power you need for Andromeda, but since it's uncompressed, it can't be much different from what you would need with the HD100. But the HD100 offers portable HD as well. It's also an interchangeble lens camera, making it perfect for using with the Mini35.
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Old August 25th, 2005, 08:58 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Ferdinand
I'm defintely going to keep checking out their website for news... Not that it's a HD100U killer or anything, but sure seems like a solid alternative.
When Juan first talked about as costing $1000 and only requiring an external disk, I was very interested. Now, not so much. Sure the images are compelling but $3000 and capturing only to a computer. I capture direct to my laptops with a 25ft firewire cable whenever possible, but always run tape for backup and often have to leave the laptops off for shots and setups.

Like many things, a great idea in concept but engineering execution is a whole other battle and better people than Juan have lost that war.

Why is not every camera built to capture 4:4:4? I think the problems with Andromeda show it very clearly. It's a speciality solution for a single digit or less percentage of the market.

With all the data in HD, JVC and Sony have decided to compress as much as possible with all the issues that brings. Panasonic is going P2 with much less compression but much more data and thus much higher cost, at least initially.

It will be interesting to see which works better for most people (though I suspect that future HDV cams will also goto some kind of solid storage media).
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