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Old September 24th, 2005, 12:30 AM   #1
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Finally got an HD CRT

So I finally got an HD monitor for my edit rig and for field work.

I can't stress enough how much better a real CRT makes HD100 footage look...or conversely, how unkind a high-res computer LCD is to the camera. I suppose one could make an argument that most people buying HD for their living rooms are buying LCDs or plasmas, but somehow that seems to be different.

In a related question, the monitor I bought only takes 1080i, not 720p. The 1080i upconvert on the camera works ONLY for tape playback, not live output. Is there a reasonably priced converter anybody knows of?

(720p into the monitor works, but is shifted to the right about 10-20%. Black/grey bar on left, clipped image on right. Maybe there's a timing adjustment I can use internally?)
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Old September 24th, 2005, 01:02 AM   #2
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Details, Nate! Make, model, price?
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Old September 24th, 2005, 01:34 AM   #3
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I got a Sony PHM-14M8U, an older 14" model, but mine is in brand new shape. I paid around $1200 for it...the guy that sold me mine has another one on Ebay right now.

Also, a place called KP Video in NYC has 2 of them used for $800/piece...but I'm sure they'd be $100 to ship and who knows what shape they're in.

Resolution is stupid good. For 720p source material, it looks almost pixel-for-pixel (but I'm sure it comes up a little short of that).

Next, the Decklink HD Pro!
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Old September 24th, 2005, 06:14 AM   #4
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That's great getting somo information about some accesssoires for the HD100 and HD editing. I have to wait at least two weeks more to get a 101 because Spain is a little bit slow. Meanwhile I was thinking in buying the DELL W1900, a HDready television. Here in Europe some tests said it would be great for editing. Any opinions?

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Old September 24th, 2005, 12:12 PM   #5
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My feeling is that for HD editing you can't go wrong with a 23" Apple Cinema display. Having just finished editing an DVCPRO HD movie on one, including color correction on it, I'm finding that it doesn't lie, and that when you play back the edited material on HD projectors etc. what you saw is what you actually get.
The last I read on CRT's there was strong opinion that they just are not capable of fully resolving HD resolutiion, even the expensive ones, and that this is the "dirty little secret" in the HD world. On the cinema display you get true one for one pixel resolution, especially if you can afford the addition of an HDLink box. (which I can't right now).
The Sony PHM-14M8U CRT you mention only has 600 lines of resolution in 16:9 mode for instance, and though I'm sure it's very good, I think I would spend the few hundred dollars more on a cinema display for HD editing. My personal impression has been that the CRT's tend to "enhance" the HD and soften it in many cases, which gives you a false impression.
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Old September 24th, 2005, 12:31 PM   #6
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There's a Dell monitor which is supposed to be as good or better than the Apple cinema display and have componente IN to boot. I forgot the model number. I'm not sure if it's the W1900 Markus mentioned, as that one seems to be a TV.
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Old September 24th, 2005, 12:56 PM   #7
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I already know that the CRT I have doesn't show the full resolution. It does show enough though that I can see focus. Viewing things pixel-for-pixel on an LCD doesn't really show me anything except focus problems and MPEG artifacts. I have a Dell 2405 at the office that I bought for finishing an HDV project...it doesn't do your footage any favors.

A CRT also gives me a gold-standard reference for exposure...only after shooting repeatedly over weeks and weeks and then viewing my footage on my previous Sony 14", did I ever get a handle on how to expose properly using the DVX's LCD screen. I haven't had a proper display I can just view HD100 tapes on to judge those things.

Ideally, I'd have both an LCD and the CRT running in Final Cut I suppose. But as a shooter, having a good, stable reference viewing device to be able to use OUTSIDE my edit rig is paramount.
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Old September 24th, 2005, 06:54 PM   #8
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So Nate, do you think a good SD CRT is better than a Dell2405 or W1900 for field (critical focus/color/exposure/lighting set up) and editing(color correction etc) when using a HD100?
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Old September 24th, 2005, 11:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maier
So Nate, do you think a good SD CRT is better than a Dell2405 or W1900 for field (critical focus/color/exposure/lighting set up) and editing(color correction etc) when using a HD100?
Hrm. Good question. Supposedly the colorspace when shooting HD is modified when sent out the composite output as SD, so I'd be careful and do some tests.

Before I got the CRT, I'd look at clips played back on my Apple 20" and say to myself "I dunno how this could be TOO far off"...but I played the same clip simultaneously on my cinema display and from tape on the CRT, and yes, there were most definitely things off. Mostly in the blacks...they'd go green on the LCD but go warm on the CRT. The most important part I think maybe is the fact it's just plain hard to second guess the LCD as to what it's going to look like elsewhere. With the CRT you have a lifetime of CRT watching experience to make guesses.

So I guess in short, yeah, I guess I'd take a good SD monitor over the Dell 2405.

[edit: an SD CRT is only going to be good for exposure and color. It will not help you a lot with focus.]
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Old September 25th, 2005, 08:57 AM   #10
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Nate, I was wondering. The Apple LCD monitors have 350 to 1 contrast ratio, while the Dell has 700 to1. Do you think that would make a difference when viewing HD content?
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Old September 25th, 2005, 09:21 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Weaver
Hrm. Good question. Supposedly the colorspace when shooting HD is modified when sent out the composite output as SD, so I'd be careful and do some tests.
[edit: an SD CRT is only going to be good for exposure and color. It will not help you a lot with focus.]

The reason I asked is because your new monitor was said to have 600 lines. That's SD resolution more than HD I think. While the Dells go all the way up to real HD resolution.
Also, you don't need to use the composite. You can use the componente to the SD monitor.
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Old September 25th, 2005, 12:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maier
The reason I asked is because your new monitor was said to have 600 lines. That's SD resolution more than HD I think. While the Dells go all the way up to real HD resolution.
Also, you don't need to use the composite. You can use the componente to the SD monitor.
This is kinda where book knowledge vs. real experience becomes an issue. If you saw the image on this 14" monitor, there would be no way you'd mistake it for SD. Don't be so quick to dismiss it by the numbers.

Viewing a res chart shot on the HD100 on both displays, the CRT is only smoothing over the last 10% of resolution from the camera; more than enough to see focus problems.
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Old September 25th, 2005, 01:44 PM   #13
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I have been using both the Dell 24" and the Sony 14" for editing, I want to see exactly what it would look like on progressive and interlaced display, in the beginning I was using Sony 14" mainly for color correction and look for interlaced artifacts, but I'm getting to the point I don't even turn it on anymore, I got the Dell adjust very accurate now using blue gelatin gel since it doesn't have a blue gun only mode, the thing about the Dell is it will show you everything, if your footage is crap it will looks very bad, but if your footage is good it will look very very awsome.
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Old September 25th, 2005, 02:13 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Khoi Pham
I have been using both the Dell 24" and the Sony 14" for editing
Which Sony, Khoi?
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Old September 25th, 2005, 02:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Maier
There's a Dell monitor which is supposed to be as good or better than the Apple cinema display and have componente IN to boot. I forgot the model number. I'm not sure if it's the W1900 Markus mentioned, as that one seems to be a TV.
The Dell you're thinking of (I believe) is the 2405FPW... it's the same one that I think I remember reading that Lucas was using on the set of the last two SW movies.
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