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Old October 5th, 2005, 04:56 AM   #1
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HD100 Gamma/Colour Tests + DVX100 Match Settings

I just spent many hours thoroughly scoping both the DVX100A and the HD100.
You can look at the results in the following quicktime files (advance through frame-by-frame to compare results.)

I also have noted my "wide-latitude," "low-light," and "filmout" settings.

HD100 Gamma and Matrix settings:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...X-Sorenson.mov

DVX100 Gamma Settings:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...A-Sorenson.mov

DVX100 Colour Matrix Settings:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...X-Sorenson.mov

Downloadable pdf of 6 of my scene file recipes:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...e_Recipes1.pdf

JPG of the scene files:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...e_Recipes1.jpg



Here's my technical matched settings for the three typical DVX100 setups. I got them as close as possible. Please note that these comparisons are based on the DVX100A with a setup of 7.5IRE. The HD100 was also setup with 7.5, but I have confirmed it is only added on the analog output. The 1394 is 0 setup.


HD100 settings to match DVX100 CINELIKE GAMMA and CINELIKE MATRIX:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...TRIX_MATCH.jpg

HD100 settings to match DVX100 CINELIKE_D GAMMA and CINELIKE MATRIX:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...TRIX_MATCH.jpg

HD100 settings to match DVX100 CINELIKE_V GAMMA and CINELIKE MATRIX:
http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...TRIX_MATCH.jpg


The colour chart used is a standard GretagMacbeth ColorChecker. I needed a smooth grad to determine "stepping" in the Mpeg compression, so I created the grad card myself in photoshop using a linear grad from absolute black to absolute white. I printed it on a good HP injet photo printer.

Before I started these tests I reset the HD100 to factory defaults and initialized scene file 6 on the DVX. I set the HD100 to DV24PA mode as well, 4x3. The HD100 colour gain was turned off (B&W) and the DVX100A was turned down as much as possible to give me the thinnest line possible on the waveform monitor. The line is much thicker on the DVX100A tests because it can't totally remove saturation, so you are seeing a bit of RGB response.
The HD100 was set to 108% clip to extend the recording latitude, and it seems from the scope results that the DVX100 also records 108% super-white.

Next, I white balanced and set a 18% Gray Card (on angle to light source) to 50IRE for each camera - using the default out-of-box scene files.
This gave me 2.4 for the DVX and 1.4 for the HD100. I had both cameras simultaneously plugged into my analog waveform/vectorscope so I could confirm the digital results via firewire. I set both cameras to 7.5IRE because I'm in North America, but I observed that the DVX100A passed the 7.5 setup through the digital FW cable, but the HD100 does not. I took this into account when I eventually created the DVX match settings.

I then went through all of the gamma combinations I could think of on the DVX and then did all of the colour matrix combinations. On the HD100 I went through a huge amount of combinations of curve settings, but only compared the cine and standard matrix settings to each other.

To determine matched settings for the DVX100A, I brought up the frame grabs for Cinelike, Cinelike_D, and Cinelike_V and determined how to match the shape in the HD100. I then opened the vectorscope frame grabs and tweaked the colour settings to get them as close as possible. It wasn't easy, and my resultant "recipes" are not perfect, but they are close enough to do a multicamera shoot and then only require slight adjustments in post.

It is pretty amazing the depth of control available in the HD100... I didn't even come close to dialing in ALL of the possible combinations, but I think my tests demonstrate the effects of each control well enough to create some cool looks.

I think that I will typically be shooting "old school" style with my wide-latitude setting to capture as much info as possible in my "digital neg" and then leave the colour correction to post production. I confirmed (as reported) that the MPEG compression creates bigger "steps" in luminance in the blacks than in the whites. That is why I increased the "master black" levels in my wide-latitude setting to get the most out of the compression. In this case I would expose for my highlights and squeeze about 8 stops of latitude between 15IRE and 100IRE.

Mac users can open my .mac public folder (timdashwood) and drag the JPEG frame grabs to your own hard drive. The PC guys can either download the iDisk utility or go here and download them individually from the HD100-DVX_GAMMA-MATRIX folder.


Tim

Last edited by Tim Dashwood; October 5th, 2005 at 08:50 PM. Reason: added procedural information
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Old October 5th, 2005, 08:10 AM   #2
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Outstanding, Tim, this is the sort of content we're always looking for around here. Much appreciated,
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Old October 5th, 2005, 10:10 PM   #3
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Thx for your hard work Tim. I too like to shoot as flat as possible and tweak in post!

What are the diffrences between Cinelike, Cinelike_D, and Cinelike_V for those of us who never had a DVX100?

From the graphs I like the "filmout" and "cine wide lattitude" as they seem most balanced!

Is it possible to save a few of settings as presets so that you dont have to dial in the diffrent settings everytime you want to change?
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Old October 5th, 2005, 11:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soroush Shahrokni
What are the diffrences between Cinelike, Cinelike_D, and Cinelike_V for those of us who never had a DVX100?
Download the QT called DVX100A Gamma settings and you will see the curves.

Quote:
From the graphs I like the "filmout" and "cine wide lattitude" as they seem most balanced!
The cine wide is the one I've been using most often when I know I will be colour correcting. I would use my filmout settings only for 35mm blowup that may have to skip a D.I.

Quote:
Is it possible to save a few of settings as presets so that you dont have to dial in the diffrent settings everytime you want to change?
Yes. 3 to the internal memory and 4 per SD card. I have all of these saved in my cameras.
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Old October 7th, 2005, 12:39 PM   #5
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fantastic stuff Tim! thanks!

particularly like the low-light mode.
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Old October 8th, 2005, 12:53 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
Yes. 3 to the internal memory and 4 per SD card. I have all of these saved in my cameras.
Correction: 2 to internal memory and 4 to the 16Mb SD card included with the HD100. Someone else reported that a max of 8 scene files can be saved to an SD card. This must either require a larger card, or a firmware update? I don't know yet.

Of course you can buy as many SD cards as you want and build a portable library of scene files. It would be good for multicam shoots.

Tim
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Old October 9th, 2005, 11:31 AM   #7
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Tim, I read that you have made some presets for the Amelie, Four Kings and English Patient looks. Would you mind sharing them with us plz?

How about a "Se7en" look? :)
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Old October 10th, 2005, 01:56 AM   #8
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You misread someone else's post. I am working on some creative looks, but it takes time to create them in camera.
Frankly, it is alot easier to capture as much info as possible and then create the looks in post with Magic Bullet for Editors.

I'll create a library of my favourite looks as soon as I have a chance.

I also love the way "Se7en" was shot. I was just thinking about it the other day because I watched "The Interpreter" on DVD - also shot by Darius Khondji.

Tim
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Old October 10th, 2005, 03:45 AM   #9
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Tim that is absolutely awesome work - thanks . Hope the below info is useful to you. (although given your obvious technical expertise you probably already know this but at least it should clarify the issue for others)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
The HD100 was also setup with 7.5, but I have confirmed it is only added on the analog output. The 1394 is 0 setup.
Tim
Funny coming from PAL land but I came across Adam Wilt's explanation for the above (although not in relation to this particular camera). It is absolutely correct NOT to pass on 7.5 setup to the digital domain (IEEE1394). According to Adam setup does not exist and should NEVER be applied to the digital signal, because all 601 signals comply to 0 setup.

For a more detailed explanation see here:

http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html#Setup

Based on the above if the DVX does pass on setup to the 1394 signal, it would seem unwise to use that option...
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Old October 10th, 2005, 03:31 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mitchell
Based on the above if the DVX does pass on setup to the 1394 signal, it would seem unwise to use that option...
Only used in North America NTSC. Everyone else in the world should just leave it on 0 and not think about it.
If you are not shooting for broadcast, then it may also be a good idea to leave it off in NTSC land as well to achieve a little more latitude. However, it should be set to 7.5% if you want to see a true representation of what your footage will look like when broadcast.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 07:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
Only used in North America NTSC. Everyone else in the world should just leave it on 0 and not think about it.
If you are not shooting for broadcast, then it may also be a good idea to leave it off in NTSC land as well to achieve a little more latitude. However, it should be set to 7.5% if you want to see a true representation of what your footage will look like when broadcast.
Not when recorded to DV according to Adam (because the 601 specs even in North America call for 0 IRE) - only when OUTPUT from a DV camera/deck in analogue should the 7.5 setup be added. It should never be recorded in a digital format. At least that's my understanding of what Adam is saying. If you do record 7.5 setup in digital, you are muddying the signal for no reason.

Of course real world situations may differ, but it sounded reasonable to me. And I don't work in NTSC North America so I don't have to worry about it ;-)
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Old October 10th, 2005, 07:39 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mitchell
Not when recorded to DV according to Adam (because teh 601 specs even in North America call for O IRE) - only when OUTPUT from a DV camera in analogue should the 7.5 setup be added. It should never be recorded in a digital format. At least that's my understanding of what Adam is saying.
I guess it is just one of many illegal things the DVX100 is capable of.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 07:42 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
I guess it is just one of many illegal things the DVX100 is capable of.

Caught me editing! You mean like sneaking professional public shoots in. Love it.
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Old October 11th, 2005, 12:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
I guess it is just one of many illegal things the DVX100 is capable of.
'tain't just the DVX -- just about every prosumer-priced camera does it that way. It's wrong, but it's the way it is.

The rule of thumb is pretty much someone should never use the 7.5% setup setting when recording. Just about the only circumstance where it makes any sense is if you're using the camera as a live camera head, taking the s-video output and recording that on an analog deck. Other than that. the 7.5% setup menu item is basically bogus.
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Old October 12th, 2005, 04:25 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
Correction: 2 to internal memory and 4 to the 16Mb SD card included with the HD100.
Yeah, and you also get LIVE HD30P, LIVEHD25P and CINEMA HD24P, bringing the total of possible setting files in camera to 5. Although those 3 are read only files.
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