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Old October 10th, 2005, 11:23 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
In addition, Steve suggested it is caused by insufficient light, and that you will "need at least a reading of F2 - AVERAGE," and that if there is a BG in frame that doesn't have at least F2, then we are just "SOOL" (paraphrased by me;)
That last speculation on my part was WRONG, WRONG, WRONG.

1) I now think one needs to look at the SSE issue by considering only the RANGE of light being imaged. Range is the Maximum signal minus the Minimum signal. The greater the Range, the less likely there will be SSE.

The Minimum level is the Black Level of the CCD and so it is approximately zero. The Maximum level is based on the brightest object in the image.

2) Whenever the iris is OPEN -- based upon the AE system measuring the light -- we know the AVERAGE light is low because that is what is being measured. We don't now HOW low, but it is not high enough to cause the lens to stop down to F2.

Mathematically, we know that an AVERAGE can result from many different types of "sample distributions." Which means, we can't know the Maximum signal from the AVERAGE.

However, since we are in a low light situation -- it's safe to assume that the low AVERAGE value indicates that Maximum value is likely to be low -- based upon the assumption the sample distribution is normal, i.e., bell-shaped. Therefore, the Range is low and the possibility of SSE is increased.

When I recommend F2, I am forcing one to have (or add) enough light to cause the iris to start closing which indicates the AVERAGE light is higher -- and hence the Maximum signal is higher, and hence the Range is greater, and the possibility of SSE is lower.

For those mathematically inclined -- the higher the AVERAGE the greater the likelihood the Maximum value is high no matter the sample distribution.

If you understand this concept, then you can use it. The more a scene has a complete sampling of different light levels, the more "normal" the distibution of sample values, and the lower the AVERAGE reading can be. F2 is fine, but soft. F2.8 is less soft. F4 is ideal.

If a scene has a only a limited sample of different values -- and if the dark areas are greater than the bright areas, the distribution is "skewed" to the low side. In this case, the F4 value is both a safer and a sharper choice.

Lastly, when a DP knows which F-stop that is sharpest -- they may demand the entire film be shot at that F-stop! Since we know that is F4 for the HD100 -- and since F4 assures a sufficient Range of light over most scenes -- I'm sticking with my recommendation of F4 to F8.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 11:41 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Chris Hurd
If you're waiting, you're not creating.

That's the best snippet I've heard yet on any board.

I used my HD100 as hero cam on a 9 camera (DVX) concert shoot Friday night, using Tim's settings. Any regrets? Not a one. It looks awesome, better than a 100A.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 12:24 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Weaver
I used my HD100 as hero cam on a 9 camera (DVX) concert shoot Friday night, using Tim's settings. Any regrets? Not a one. It looks awesome, better than a 100A.
Great! Are there any .m2t files available from that night?
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Old October 10th, 2005, 01:58 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Robin Hemerik
Great! Are there any .m2t files available from that night?
Nope. Sorry. I shot in DV mode, and I can't post that either because Warner Bros. Records owns the footage.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 03:38 PM   #65
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Thanks to everyone who is actually using the camera and sharing their info.

I'm going to buy one from one of the dvinfo sponsers as long as they will take it back if SSE presents a problem. I'm actually not very concerned about it now, thanks to Steve and Tim and others. Thanks for your efforts at fighting back against FUD.

joking/
And Werner, please don't give our lawyers new ideas for lawsuits.

As far as Swedish movie makers sleeping with their cameras, well.... what the heck did you expect from the land of 'I am Curious Yellow'?
/joking

I remember some of the bad things Robert Altman wrote about the CineAlta he used, to make his movie about dancers. Almost worthless when they moved form spotlight to near darkness on stage. Yet he still got his movie made and in the end, hoped to use the camera again.

Redrockmicro, here I come.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 04:22 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Joe Carney
what the heck did you expect from the land of 'I am Curious Yellow'?.
A landmark film in the USA! But, I don't think we ever got "I am Curious Blue."

The camera really does feel good. My ONLY complaint is that I wish the Manual WB and Focus Assist were swapped. But, you can assign the FA to the RET button on the lens.

Also -- the supplied mic I'm sure has a -60dBm sensitivity but the camera default is -50dBm -- so you'll want to set it to -60.

PS. HD uses a -20dB reference not the -12dB used by DV -- so the level will be lower than you are used to. But gives much more headroom.

You'll enjoy your purchase.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 04:53 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Joe Carney
And Werner, please don't give our lawyers new ideas for lawsuits.
Ah, c'mon Joe.. that'll spoil the entertainment for us Europeans... :-)
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Old October 10th, 2005, 05:16 PM   #68
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"If you're waiting, you're not creating."
That assumes you need a HD camera like the HD101 to be creative. Like most cameras, its the operator that counts isn't it?

""Surviving" is hardly the right word... "thriving" is much more like it."
In my area of work there is very little demand for HD locally, so its not a case of thriving, hence why I can afford to wait before I buy a HD camera, however with lowerer sensitivity I'll bet the few that are using them are batteling a bit harder in ther darker church's and at the reception centres, hence my term 'surviving'.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 06:28 PM   #69
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As with John my opinion of JVC in Australia is held fairly highly. Having dealt with Sony in the past on many occasions i find them to be totally inflexible and basically a bunch of cnuts- (excuse my lysdexia).
When i found the SSE (gee'z this issue even has a standard abbreviation now?!)- i took it back to my dealer and he had a new camera for me within a few days.

Having seen this subject posted saying that JVC were not acknowledging the problem, i sighed- here we go again........ maybe we should all believe nothing we read and only half what we see.

The camera has to date done me well and worth every cent i payed for it.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 06:36 PM   #70
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Firmware

OK, so where can I find the firmware updates? I've looked allover JVC's site. Y'all got 'em? Please share 'em.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 06:37 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by Troy Pousardien
OK, so where can I find the firmware updates? I've looked allover JVC's site. Y'all got 'em? Please share 'em.
We don't even know if they can be "administered" by regional engineers. We have only been tracking firmware version numbers as customers receive new units.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 06:37 PM   #72
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I think you need to exchange your camera for one with a newer version. I don't think you can update it yourself.
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Old October 10th, 2005, 06:51 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Duke
Hey Tim,

Thanks for your thoughts and comments. I am gettting my camera this week. I assume the "Master black" is a setting in the menu, correct? As a novice I am not completly clear on your settings. Can you explain it in laymen terms for me and others who are going to be using it. Maybe a step by step guide to "safe settings" to avoid SSE. What is v.1.14 FW? The lens you use?

Thanks

Duke
Brian,

As new cameras are sent to customers each week, Barry and I have been asking those on this forum to report the version of firmware in their camera. We think the original release System CPU firmware was 1.12 and the latest report was 1.17. However, I have received an uncomfirmed report via email from someone in the UK that the new units being released there may be 1.2.

As I stated many times in my post, the camera I tested has firmware version 1.14. It has never shown a split on a white wall - only intermittently in very dark situations.

I only tested one camera on the scopes, but have started receiving feedback from others on firmware versions and typical SSE trigger levels.
This is hardly a test group, but the more reports I get, the easier it will be to find some commonalities.
It seems every firmware version is reacting differently. I would say that shows progress on JVC's part. There are two separate people in the UK who received new cameras on Friday and are reported zero SSE. We'll wait for confirmation to declare the problem is dead.
If the problem is solved, then I suppose the rest of us will need to visit our local JVC office to have our FW updated, or maybe they will release a downloadable update. Who knows?
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Old October 10th, 2005, 07:06 PM   #74
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I remember hearing the firmware version are reported on a not-so-dangerous service menu, right?
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Old October 10th, 2005, 07:09 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by Nate Weaver
I remember hearing the firmware version are reported on a not-so-dangerous service menu, right?
As far as I know it is only in the ADVANCED MENU.
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