Birth of a 12,000mAh battery

Guy Barwood · October 13th, 2005, 10:25 PM

It is interesting they work for a few minutes before shutting down. That sounds more like they lack the ability to maintain adequate current for more than a short time, not a specific battery detection function.

That is my experience with VMount batteries as well. They start at 16v and drop drown to about 11v before they give up, depending on the battery brand. The voltage is as accurate a guage as you can get, you just have to get to know your voltage levels as the decrease isn't linear. After 12v they drop off pretty quick.

The 3.7v rating of LiIon cells is not hard and fast. They charge a bit higher and deplete a bit lower. So with a 14.4v battery, you have 4 cells in series meaning each cell only need charge up to 4v to give an overall 16v readout. The 7.2v batteries I made charge up to 8v.

On a DV301E, here are the readings I have measured (it is all relative so you should probably half the times for HD100)

Fuel Cell shows 3 sections:
3 Sections Lit
>6.8v
50min*

2 Sections Lit
6.8v-6.4v
70min*

1 Section Lit
6.4v-6.2v
50min*

0 Sections Lit and Low Voltage Warning Flashing
6.2v-6.0v
7min*

OFF

*LCD and Viewfinder on in camera mode, tape not recording, no gain
Note again, times are with no tape transport movement.

Michael Maier · October 14th, 2005, 04:56 AM

So you can use 14.4v and 12v batteries? I have some Bescor 12v belts and 14.4v bricks lying around. They have a XLR to connect to power, but I could find an adapter. I wonder if the would work. The belt used to power a Panasonic Supercam for about 6 hours and the brick for about 2 1/2 hours. Anybody think it would be ok to use the Bescor batteries? They are heavy, since they are lead, but it could do for now, till I get a better solution.

Guy Barwood · October 14th, 2005, 07:31 AM

The DC in for my camera is DV500 12v DC. I think that is pretty standard.

Michael Maier · October 14th, 2005, 12:21 PM

Are you saying my Bescor batteries could work?

Guy Barwood · October 14th, 2005, 05:44 PM

Sorry I am not familiar with the Bescor batteries. Work on what? A DV500 or a HD100. The DV500 is a 12v camera and therefor uses 14.4v batteries natively, but the HD100 is a 7.2 volt camera, so if you are feeding more than say 9v you really should be first downconverting the voltage. Without the IDX adaptor I can't confirm, but I'd guess there is a voltage converter in it to regulate the voltage to about 7.2v.

I hear the HD100 shows you the full battery voltage so it might actually have the voltage regulator in the camera. Alternatively there could be two voltage connections from the adaptor, one to power the camera at about 7.2v, and one unregulated one to display the battery voltage.

I wish I could tell you more, but I am really only guessing on the voltages and connections comming out of the adaptor plate.

Patrick Jenkins · October 14th, 2005, 10:26 PM

Very cool! I made some 8.4v (for Canons) custom battery packs at 4A and 8A - phew.. 12A.. mine now seem puny :)

John Mitchell · October 15th, 2005, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

Sorry I am not familiar with the Bescor batteries. Work on what? A DV500 or a HD100. The DV500 is a 12v camera and therefor uses 14.4v batteries natively, but the HD100 is a 7.2 volt camera, so if you are feeding more than say 9v you really should be first downconverting the voltage. Without the IDX adaptor I can't confirm, but I'd guess there is a voltage converter in it to regulate the voltage to about 7.2v.

I hear the HD100 shows you the full battery voltage so it might actually have the voltage regulator in the camera. Alternatively there could be two voltage connections from the adaptor, one to power the camera at about 7.2v, and one unregulated one to display the battery voltage.

I wish I could tell you more, but I am really only guessing on the voltages and connections comming out of the adaptor plate.

There are a lot of settings in the service menu to deal with external batteries via a voltage drop adapter. I am unsure what they actually do, but the glimpse i had of some of them the other day indicates that with some external batteries the HD100 does indeed read the voltage directly off the battery pack and you can actually set the warning level for when the battery is getting low.

This does NOT mean you can plug a 12 volt battery/power supply straight into the camera. It's a 7.2 v camera and anything over 9v would most likely damage the power circuit. My external batteries read 8V.

Barry Green · October 15th, 2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guy Barwood

There were some rumours early on that JVC have somehow locked the HD100 out of third party JVC mount batteries

Okay, interesting development. I've been using this beta 3rd-party battery and it's been working fine, but up until today I'd only been charging it on the HD1 charger (which works fine).

I tried the 3rd-party battery in the HD100's charger, and it wouldn't work. Wouldn't recognize it at all.

So the camera recognizes it, but the HD100's charger doesn't (although the HD1's charger does!)

Don't know what to make of all that. Looks like yes, they did engineer in some incompatibility, but curiously enough it's not with the camera...

Guy Barwood · October 15th, 2005, 08:29 PM

My charger is from a DV301E, its a model no "AA-P30U" and it charges JVC and generic brands fine. Is your HD1 and HD100 battery the same model externally?

Barry Green · October 15th, 2005, 09:45 PM

The batteries from both cameras are identical (BNV428U). The chargers are different, the HD1's is a single-bay and the HD100's is a dual-bay. The HD1's charger charges generic and original batteries, the HD100's doesn't want to charge this third-party battery.

Guy Barwood · October 15th, 2005, 09:57 PM

Thas why I asked about model numbers. My JVC charger is a dual-bay charger and it charges 3rd party batteries just fine.

Guy Barwood · October 15th, 2005, 10:02 PM

The HD100 System page shows its charger to be the AA-P30U, the same one I have. Unless they have changed its internal design it should charge a 3rd party battery as my AA-P30U does.

Barry Green · October 15th, 2005, 10:33 PM

Intriguing. Perhaps it's this particular battery's fault.

Hey, I've got a couple of other generic batteries here too; I'll try those out in the cam and charger and let you know how those work out.

Guy Barwood · October 16th, 2005, 03:43 AM

I've made a very basic web page from the origonal and a few new photos from making the second battery.

http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/battery.htm

Barry Green · October 17th, 2005, 01:39 AM

Follow-up: the other generic batteries work fine on both the HD100 and the HD100 charger. It's just this particular prototype that won't charge on the HD100 charger.

October 13th, 2005, 10:25 PM	#16
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	It is interesting they work for a few minutes before shutting down. That sounds more like they lack the ability to maintain adequate current for more than a short time, not a specific battery detection function. That is my experience with VMount batteries as well. They start at 16v and drop drown to about 11v before they give up, depending on the battery brand. The voltage is as accurate a guage as you can get, you just have to get to know your voltage levels as the decrease isn't linear. After 12v they drop off pretty quick. The 3.7v rating of LiIon cells is not hard and fast. They charge a bit higher and deplete a bit lower. So with a 14.4v battery, you have 4 cells in series meaning each cell only need charge up to 4v to give an overall 16v readout. The 7.2v batteries I made charge up to 8v. On a DV301E, here are the readings I have measured (it is all relative so you should probably half the times for HD100) Fuel Cell shows 3 sections: 3 Sections Lit >6.8v 50min* 2 Sections Lit 6.8v-6.4v 70min* 1 Section Lit 6.4v-6.2v 50min* 0 Sections Lit and Low Voltage Warning Flashing 6.2v-6.0v 7min* OFF *LCD and Viewfinder on in camera mode, tape not recording, no gain Note again, times are with no tape transport movement.

October 14th, 2005, 04:56 AM	#17
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	So you can use 14.4v and 12v batteries? I have some Bescor 12v belts and 14.4v bricks lying around. They have a XLR to connect to power, but I could find an adapter. I wonder if the would work. The belt used to power a Panasonic Supercam for about 6 hours and the brick for about 2 1/2 hours. Anybody think it would be ok to use the Bescor batteries? They are heavy, since they are lead, but it could do for now, till I get a better solution.

October 14th, 2005, 07:31 AM	#18
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	The DC in for my camera is DV500 12v DC. I think that is pretty standard.

October 14th, 2005, 12:21 PM	#19
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Are you saying my Bescor batteries could work?

October 14th, 2005, 05:44 PM	#20
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Sorry I am not familiar with the Bescor batteries. Work on what? A DV500 or a HD100. The DV500 is a 12v camera and therefor uses 14.4v batteries natively, but the HD100 is a 7.2 volt camera, so if you are feeding more than say 9v you really should be first downconverting the voltage. Without the IDX adaptor I can't confirm, but I'd guess there is a voltage converter in it to regulate the voltage to about 7.2v. I hear the HD100 shows you the full battery voltage so it might actually have the voltage regulator in the camera. Alternatively there could be two voltage connections from the adaptor, one to power the camera at about 7.2v, and one unregulated one to display the battery voltage. I wish I could tell you more, but I am really only guessing on the voltages and connections comming out of the adaptor plate.

October 14th, 2005, 10:26 PM	#21
Patrick Jenkins Major Player Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 382	Very cool! I made some 8.4v (for Canons) custom battery packs at 4A and 8A - phew.. 12A.. mine now seem puny :)

October 15th, 2005, 08:29 PM	#24
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	My charger is from a DV301E, its a model no "AA-P30U" and it charges JVC and generic brands fine. Is your HD1 and HD100 battery the same model externally?

October 15th, 2005, 09:45 PM	#25
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The batteries from both cameras are identical (BNV428U). The chargers are different, the HD1's is a single-bay and the HD100's is a dual-bay. The HD1's charger charges generic and original batteries, the HD100's doesn't want to charge this third-party battery.

October 15th, 2005, 09:57 PM	#26
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Thas why I asked about model numbers. My JVC charger is a dual-bay charger and it charges 3rd party batteries just fine.

October 15th, 2005, 10:02 PM	#27
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	The HD100 System page shows its charger to be the AA-P30U, the same one I have. Unless they have changed its internal design it should charge a 3rd party battery as my AA-P30U does.

October 15th, 2005, 10:33 PM	#28
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Intriguing. Perhaps it's this particular battery's fault. Hey, I've got a couple of other generic batteries here too; I'll try those out in the cam and charger and let you know how those work out.

October 16th, 2005, 03:43 AM	#29
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	I've made a very basic web page from the origonal and a few new photos from making the second battery. http://www.glasseye.com.au/hd101e/battery.htm

October 17th, 2005, 01:39 AM	#30
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	Follow-up: the other generic batteries work fine on both the HD100 and the HD100 charger. It's just this particular prototype that won't charge on the HD100 charger.