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Old November 11th, 2005, 05:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath
Tim, here in Canada I use 1/30 shutter, because I find it nicer, smoother then 1/60. I'm right, or this is just to me?
Also, the "Saving Private Ryan" look is 1/100 in NTSC land too?

Please let me know
Laszlo
I'm sorry for reply to my own message, but you guys just talk about 24p recording. I don't thing I can use that for wedding (I do 95% weddings) Recording 720p30 is a big jump for me anyway from 60i
I love it and I'm ready to learn much more about 30p. I did a few wedding already and turned out fantastic.
I just need to know for 30p recording the 30 shutter is better than 60, or just I see it that way.

Please let me know

Laszlo
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Old November 11th, 2005, 05:46 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath
I just need to know for 30p recording the 30 shutter is better than 60, or just I see it that way.
I suppose "better" is a subjective term. You may think it looks better, so therefore for you and your clients it is better. Nate and I would disagree (being the film purists that we are!)
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Old November 11th, 2005, 06:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
I suppose "better" is a subjective term. You may think it looks better, so therefore for you and your clients it is better. Nate and I would disagree (being the film purists that we are!)
Sorry Tim I meant "smoother"
I and my camera man see the movement is smoother with 30 shutter speed
That what I meant. Anyway, if I want to record smoother moving-paning the 30 shutter is smoother than 60?

Laszlo
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Old November 11th, 2005, 06:29 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath
I'm sorry for reply to my own message, but you guys just talk about 24p recording. I don't thing I can use that for wedding (I do 95% weddings) Recording 720p30 is a big jump for me anyway from 60i
I love it and I'm ready to learn much more about 30p. I did a few wedding already and turned out fantastic.
I just need to know for 30p recording the 30 shutter is better than 60, or just I see it that way.

Please let me know

Laszlo
I personally think it is better 720p30 at 30 shutter, particularly in a dark scenario. I think it blends the frames better and let's more light at the CCD's. Play around with it and I'll bet you find what your limits are with shutter set to 30.
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Old November 11th, 2005, 06:55 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath
Anyway, if I want to record smoother moving-paning the 30 shutter is smoother than 60?
Undoubtedly.
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Old November 11th, 2005, 07:51 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath
Anyway, if I want to record smoother moving-paning the 30 shutter is smoother than 60?
The proper shutter-speed for 720p30 is 1/60th. You can choose 1/30th to increase motion blur but I think this results in mud. Image resolution drops dramatically so what looks smooth on a small screen may look like s**t on a large screen.

I think you are missing a key point -- if you choose the right pan SPEED you will get a good looking pan.

You should also engage the Motion Filter which smooths things out. Are you using it?

Lastly, a pan without following a moving object is not a wise camera move. It's almost as bad as an zoom. IMHO every shot should be composed and static with action within the frame (remember you are working in widescreen) -- or the camera should be moving. Pans and zooms are for birthday party videos.
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Old November 11th, 2005, 08:08 PM   #22
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Laszlo,

I've never shot a wedding but I'm sure it's exceedingly difficult to frame every shot without some panning motion (particularly in close quarters). Have you tried the smooth motion function?
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Old November 11th, 2005, 10:06 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
Laszlo,

I've never shot a wedding but I'm sure it's exceedingly difficult to frame every shot without some panning motion (particularly in close quarters). Have you tried the smooth motion function?

Thanks for all of you.

Yes, actually I never used the camera without smooth motion yet. When I bought the camera I start shoot with it just like with any other video cameras (60i) and I was scared by the results. (Don't forget I came from 15 years experience of 60i) I almost sent back the camera.
But later I start search on the net, I find you guys, and I learn some shooting technics. Two weeks later I shoot my first wedding, and actually I very enjoyed, and the result was FANTASTIC. But we shot 720/30 with 30 shutter speed. The 60 shutter speed was a little bit (I mean just a little more) jittery. Now I'm ready to learn this fomat of video (or film?)
I showed to my new costumers (brides) the already made wedding and since that, I have six new booking and all of them want 720/30 HD. Nobody even realized any jitters. All of them told me: This is look like a movie.. So different... I love it... The picture have a depth.. Look like 3D... etc.
And yes with wedding I think is absolultely unpossible to just frame a shoot with a little, or nothing paning-zooming. But I try to follow this new rules for this beautyfull camera.
Again, I love it and actually right now I searching for the book: American Cinematographer Manual 9th Edition

Any additional help, shooting technics are more then welcome.

PS: If you guys do not mined download my two two mins. basically edited footage from my first ever 720p/30 wedding is here:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=7D4VC6EV (church)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2F2ZFXKG (reception) Here you an see lot's of panning, I following dancers. Don't forget, this was my first try.

I use some free site to upload my footages, so have some advertise, but otherwise it's OK

Laszlo
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Old November 11th, 2005, 10:23 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
The proper shutter-speed for 720p30 is 1/60th. You can choose 1/30th to increase motion blur but I think this results in mud. Image resolution drops dramatically so what looks smooth on a small screen may look like s**t on a large screen.

What would be the proper shutter for 720p24?
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Old November 11th, 2005, 10:29 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Duke
What would be the proper shutter for 720p24?
I think Tim Dashwood already gave an answer for this a few thread above:

"Are you on 1/24th shutter? You should be on 1/48th for normal shooting. 1/100 if you want the "Saving Private Ryan" look."
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Old November 12th, 2005, 05:39 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath
I think Tim Dashwood already gave an answer for this a few thread above:

"Are you on 1/24th shutter? You should be on 1/48th for normal shooting. 1/100 if you want the "Saving Private Ryan" look."
Thanks guys. Just wanted to make sure =)
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Old November 12th, 2005, 10:41 PM   #27
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I downloaded Laszlos wedding footage and everyone is telling me of the horrible low light performence of high definition video but Laszlos video looks just fine to me. Either the reception hall had plenty of light or the low light performence of high definition video is adequate for most weddings. Also I didn't see any split screens. But maybe I am hallucinating because everyone is telling me it is impossible to watch high definition video without a 2000 dollar Blu-Ray DVD player and a 4000 dollar Plasma Television.
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Old November 13th, 2005, 07:10 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laszlo Horvath
And yes with wedding I think is absolultely unpossible to just frame a shoot with a little, or nothing paning-zooming. But I try to follow this new rules for this beautyfull camera.
I didn't remember you were shooting weddings. You've got a lot more freedom.

But remember:

1) You have a much wider screen so you can move back and frame to capture a wider area.

2) You've got more detail so you can shoot wider. However, once you bring it down to SD you might lose the detail so this might not work for you.

Most folks will NOT see jitter when the Motion Filter is used. But, you are right that panning is the one time when the Motion Filter can be fooled.

Try very slow or very fast pans.
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