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Old February 23rd, 2006, 07:22 PM   #1
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HD100 and 1/24 shutter

When shooting in 24p with the HD100:
Is there any a time where you would want to shoot in 1/24 shutter?

I kinda figure that I should always shoot in 1/48 shutter as a rule unless I try out slo-mo with 60 shutter and 50p?

What do you guys think?
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Old February 23rd, 2006, 09:34 PM   #2
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http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=61016
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Old February 23rd, 2006, 10:59 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Efrain Gomez
When shooting in 24p with the HD100:
Is there any a time where you would want to shoot in 1/24 shutter?

I kinda figure that I should always shoot in 1/48 shutter as a rule unless I try out slo-mo with 60 shutter and 50p?

What do you guys think?
:: efrain
That's right. Don't go below 1/48th if you want to emulate the motion of film. When shooting 50P, use a shutter of 1/100, and when shooting 60P, use 1/120.
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Old February 23rd, 2006, 11:09 PM   #4
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1/24th can be useful in low light coupled with low motion scenarios. You'll gain quite a bit of sensitivity but risk motion blur. Still it's effective in some scenarios.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 10:40 AM   #5
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If you want the motion trailing effect I'd say go ahead and shoot with a slow shutter speed. I'd only shoot that way if you know you want to use the trailing look. If you're just thinking about it go ahead and shoot normal, you can always create the effect in post (After Effects). Depending on your subject the effect can be useful. It looks cool wide landscape shots in a grassy field on a breezy day, but try to avoid locations where trees will be moving in the wind as well. Same goes for shots of moving water. Also it works great if you're trying to emmulate a drunk POV shot.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 11:00 AM   #6
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what about 30p?

What shutter works best for this frame rate? 1/30 has a good filmish look
but 1/60 looks more videoish IMO. What do you guys think?
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Old February 24th, 2006, 11:09 AM   #7
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Well, since we're talking about frame rates,

I plan on shoot live music concert events for DVD.

I thought about sticking with 30P for this.
Any thoughts on getting the best looking live look
as possible?

I also, plan on doing music videos. Nate has some of the best looking stuff around.

Nate, I remember reading you did some of this (or all) using 24P. Is this correct? What's interesting, is that I don't see the 24P judder even on shots I thought should; although it still breathes a 24P filmic look. Are willing to share some your ideas on how this is done?

Again, great work.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 11:16 AM   #8
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Council,
I accidently shot some footage at 30P using a 1/30 shutter speed.

After realizing, and going "oh fck", to my surprise, it looked better than I thought. I thought the 1/30 shutter speed would cause to much image blur, but it was not bad.

Now, 1/24 shutter at 24FPS may be the difference here. I agree the 1/24 shutter at this frame rate should be used for possibly a dream look, or for the hard-up situation of wanting more light without using gain. I guess it depends on how much movement is going on.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 01:11 PM   #9
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Last week I shot talent doing an on-camera delivery for broadcast in SD/NTSC. I used the 1/30th shutter with 30p. It had a film type look to it. That's what I was going for but I wasn't sure if that was the best or correct shutter to get that "film" look. The few things I've shot with the shutter set at 1/60th had that "live" video feel. I'm sure I'll use this setting for some corp. stuff coming up. What I haven't tested is using these settings with the smooth motion turned on. So many options, its great but confusing.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 01:34 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Council Bradshaw
That's what I was going for but I wasn't sure if that was the best or correct shutter to get that "film" look. .... So many options, its great but confusing.
It is an easy concept to understand if you think in terms of motion picture film and exposure time as an element of "the film look."

Imagine a round spinning shutter in a motion picture camera, with 1/2 clear and 1/2 black. This represents a typical film shutter in 180 degrees position.
When a film camera rolls at 24fps, that shutter exposes light to the emulsion for 1/2 of its cycle, it advances the film during the other half, when the light is blocked. Therefore the exposure for each frame is 1/48th of a second for normal 180degree shutter at 24fps.
It is impossible for a film camera to shoot at 1/24 exposure at 24fps, because there would be no time to close the shutter and advance the film. Some cameras can extend the shutter to around 200 degrees, but this doesn't really extent the exposure time very much.

1/48th is the norm for film look. However, if you wanted the sharp, stroby look of Saving Private Ryan/Band of Brothers, Gladiator, etc., then you would increase the shutter speed, reducing the exposure time.
In the case of Saving Private Ryan, they dialed down the shutter to 90 degrees, so that only 1/4 of the "pie" was clear and 3/4 was black. Therefore the exposure was 1/96th of a second for each frame. You can round up to 1/00 on the HD100 for the same look.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 02:16 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood
In the case of Saving Private Ryan, they dialed down the shutter to 90 degrees, so that only 1/4 of the "pie" was clear and 3/4 was black. Therefore the exposure was 1/96th of a second for each frame. You can round up to 1/00 on the HD100 for the same look.
Tim, didn't they do this because the film was treated with bleach bypass which "pre exposes" the negative? Essentially they needed to lower the exposure on the second round to not over saturate the negative.

I could be wrong but I thought that was the technique.
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Old February 24th, 2006, 03:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Holtermann
Tim, didn't they do this because the film was treated with bleach bypass which "pre exposes" the negative? Essentially they needed to lower the exposure on the second round to not over saturate the negative.

I could be wrong but I thought that was the technique.
No, that had nothing to do with it. They used 90 degree shutter so that every bit of grit, dirt and blood could be seen in the air when bombs blew up. It was an aesthetic choice, just as the use of bleach bypass to create a high contrast, de-saturated look was an aesthetic choice.

When shooting for bleach bypass, you actually need more exposure than normal because your blacks stay so dark. Bleach bypass doesn't "pre-expose" anything, you are probably thinking of "flashing" a negative to boost sensitivity in the blacks (which is the opposite look.)
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Old February 24th, 2006, 04:15 PM   #13
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Ahhh, yes. Flashing was indeed what I was thinking of.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 09:40 AM   #14
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what about 30p

I understand the 1/48th shutter for 24p, but what about 30p. I'm shooting a lot of stuff next week and for faster workflow reasons I'm going to shoot it at 30p. What shutter is best for the film look at that frame rate? Most shots will be interview style with dollie & jib moves. Plus various cut aways.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 12:34 PM   #15
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1/60 is the norm for 30P or 60i.
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