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Old February 25th, 2006, 10:58 AM   #1
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Help needed on purchase the JVC100HD

Hi,
I have been offered a good price on my Canon XL1s and would like opinions on whether now is the right time to move to HD. i particuarly like the look of the 100HD and I am wondering if it would be the best replacement. I edit in FCPHD with a G5 2.5.
Is this camera compatable?
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Old February 25th, 2006, 12:45 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson
Hi,
I have been offered a good price on my Canon XL1s and would like opinions on whether now is the right time to move to HD.
YES!!! If someone has offered a good price on a XL1s, then take it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson
I particuarly like the look of the 100HD and I am wondering if it would be the best replacement.
It shoots every format the XL2 does, (DV 60i, 24P & 24P "Advanced) as well as HDV formats (720P24, 720P25, 720P30, 480P60, 576P50)
If you have invested in Canon accessories and you prefer Canon glass, then the XLH1 might be a more ideal fit for you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson
I edit in FCPHD with a G5 2.5.
Is this camera compatable?
It is fully compatible in all DV modes and 720P30 HDV mode. The other HDV modes can be captured with 3rd party software and used in FCP5.

When FCP6 is released, it should fully support 720P24 and 720P25.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 04:08 PM   #3
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Dennis,

Before I would recommend switching cameras it might help to know what type of video you typically shoot.

I also have the Canon XL1s and still prefer it over the HD100 on some shoots (if HD is not required). For run and gun shooting where auto focus is essential, I still prefer the Canon. If I have a little more time to set my shots I use the JVC. The example I like to use is shooting the motocross events I do each year, from the middle of the track and in the action. The riders are coming at you sometimes 70+mph at maybe 100 yards, and then in the blink of an eye they blow past you just missing you by a couple feet. Then turn, zoom again, and catch the next guy who is already on top of you. To manual zoom AND focus with an HD camera (even with focus assist) you are going to soft shoot a few no matter how seasoned. It's not that you can't use the JVC with manual lens for this, it's just a whole hell of a lot harder after shooting with the Canon and having auto focus as an option.

I love our JVC and chose it over the new Canon, but if my income was from more action specific events like auto and motocross, I would have gone with the new Canon and not the JVC.

I know that a lot of professional videographers might argue with me on this, but those who have come from the Canon XL series know what I'm talking about. I'm sure that JVC users would agree however that pulling focus with the HD100 off the barrel while zooming is a bit of an art form, and takes practice. I agree with Tim, if you can get a good price for the Canon then sell it. But coming from a Canon I would try the JVC before you buy one, and then choose the right camera for the type of event that you intend to shoot.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 04:27 PM   #4
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Daniel,

It sounds like you wish the HD100 had auto focus.

I see your reasoning under those particular circumstances.

I guess it would come in handy for some run and gun stuff, but I never trust AF.

AF can't read your mind on what subject to keep in focus. Since AF works off of image contrast, it hunts to grab anything it can.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 06:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Thomas
Daniel,

It sounds like you wish the HD100 had auto focus.

I see your reasoning under those particular circumstances.

I guess it would come in handy for some run and gun stuff, but I never trust AF.

AF can't read your mind on what subject to keep in focus. Since AF works off of image contrast, it hunts to grab anything it can.
Yes, at times I wish auto focus was an option for me shooting with the HD100, as a second lens that is. But I bought the JVC for a different purpose than I have used the Canon for in the past. The Canon did a good job at auto focusing at the track, not perfect all the time, but I was able to follow the action with very good results.

If Dennis is currently shooting with the XL1s (and does not use an after market manual lens),then he might appreciate knowing he has a bit of a learning curve in how he shoots. Coming from the Canon myself I have been there and done that. As much as I love my JVC, I still appreciate what the Canon has to offer. In fact, if I had the money I would be shooting with both HD100 and the XLH1. I like diversity.
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Old February 25th, 2006, 06:35 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Patton
For run and gun shooting where auto focus is essential, I still prefer the Canon. If I have a little more time to set my shots I use the JVC. The example I like to use is shooting the motocross events I do each year, from the middle of the track and in the action. The riders are coming at you sometimes 70+mph at maybe 100 yards, and then in the blink of an eye they blow past you just missing you by a couple feet. Then turn, zoom again, and catch the next guy who is already on top of you. To manual zoom AND focus with an HD camera (even with focus assist) you are going to soft shoot a few no matter how seasoned. It's not that you can't use the JVC with manual lens for this, it's just a whole hell of a lot harder after shooting with the Canon and having auto focus as an option....
I know that a lot of professional videographers might argue with me on this, but those who have come from the Canon XL series know what I'm talking about. I'm sure that JVC users would agree however that pulling focus with the HD100 off the barrel while zooming is a bit of an art form, and takes practice.
It's not really an artform, but just becomes second nature. Frankly, on a 1/3" CCD camera, focus is not really a big issue in any run & gun situation, and there is NO WAY autofocus could focus faster or do a better job than a live human operator in the fast paced situation you described.
The Canon auto lenses (3x Wide and 16x) that came with the XL1 NEEDED autofocus because the servo driver system was so bad that the backfocus was never right, meaning you couldn't effectively use the manual focus without a large monitor. I know all too well, I shot a film and many corp videos with an XL1 and the servo lens.

Here's a few tips for keeping things in focus in a "run & gun" situation.
Shoot at F4 when possible. This seems to be the sweet spot of the lens.
When the lens is at F4, and wide open (5.5mm) set the focus to 8 feet. This is the hyperfocal distance of the lens at F4, meaning everything from 4 feet to infinity will be in focus.

Here are some other commonly used hyperfocal distances to jot down when using the wide end of the lens and you won't have time to determine focus by zooming in. (These only work on 1/3" CCDs)
5.5mm @ F2.8 = 5.5 feet
5.5mm @ F4 = 4 feet
5.5mm @ F5.6 = 3 feet
10mm @ F2.8 = 18 feet
10mm @ F4 = 13 feet
10mm @ F5.6 = 9 feet

I "calculated" these by using the great DOF calculator at http://www.fuerstentum.net/Widget/index.html
I set the sensor size to 1/3" and the LCF to 1 (no crop factor.)
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Old February 25th, 2006, 06:51 PM   #7
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Tim

Really usefull info! Thanks!!

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Old February 25th, 2006, 11:50 PM   #8
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Agreed, thanks Tim very useful indeed.

But if I'm reading correctly, you are providing a way of ensuring focus at full wide with nothing for working at the telephoto end of the lens, so as long as I donít use zoom, I'm good as gold. I can do this all day long with my JVC with perfect focus (although my composition might be a bit boring). I have also shot my share of run and gun action with the Canon. To follow focus tight action from 100 yards heading straight towards you at 70+mph with occasional woops and jumps? I have to agree to disagree with you. You either perfect pulling focus, shoot only wide or have a decent auto focus.



My apologies, I have taken this thread off topic. I know this section of the DV-Info forum is dedicated to sharing information on the GY-HD100, but itís not the only camera perfect for everyone and every shooting situation. Dennis questions were:

"I edit in FCPHD with a G5 2.5. Is this camera compatable?"

To that, I would hope we all might agree is yes.

And...
" i particuarly like the look of the 100HD and I am wondering if it would be the best replacement"?

I think the JVC is the best camera for the money, we love ours and chose it over the Canon and Pani for most of our HD shoots. What do you intend to shoot, typically? Do you tend shoot with the auto focus turned off on the Canon? If so the manual lens may take some getting use to. Good luck with your choice!
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Old February 26th, 2006, 12:01 AM   #9
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I Got a good price for my XL1s, I bought the HD100, and edit on FCP 5, it's time to ditch standard DV, HD is where were heading, sell your XL1S while you can.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 12:30 AM   #10
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Hi All,
I want to thank you all for getting back to me with your thoughts. I shoot TV commercials and video presentations and as such I don't often use auto focus. On the Canon xL1s I tend to hit the focus button a lot. I often use image stablisation and wonder if I will miss it on the JVC.
I have the MA 200 with the battery pack on the canon. Does the HD100 have this feature with the extra battery?
At the moment I only have FCPHD 4.5 and understand that I will need FCP5 for HD. Does the JVC simply use a firewire cable to capture from and how much slower is working in HD compared to DV?
Thanks Manny, I think it might be a good time to get rid of my XL1s too otherwise I will get nothing for it later on.
Do you notice the HD100 has a shallower D.O.F. than the Canon. I really love the film look and have read up on the mini35 but it is too expensive for me at this time.
Greetings from Australia.
Dennis
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Old February 26th, 2006, 02:26 AM   #11
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You might want to consider renting an HD100 for a test drive, if there are any rentals available to you there. One of the major reasons I chose an FX1, over going the HD100 route, was wanting that push auto (focus) there if I wind up finding I really do need it for run and gun. The HD100 is very attractive, in a number of regards, but I sure didn't want to risk finding myself having serious difficulty for lack of that one feature (and similarly OIS).
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Old February 26th, 2006, 02:33 AM   #12
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Thanks Robert, but I cant see myself with the Sony. It looks just like a toy camera that I would not be proud to own. I realise it takes great images but I need something that looks professional in my work.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 08:12 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Patton
But if I'm reading correctly, you are providing a way of ensuring focus at full wide with nothing for working at the telephoto end of the lens, so as long as I donít use zoom, I'm good as gold.
Finding focus at long focal lengths is easy, even with LCD viewfinders, because the DOF shortens. I posted hyperfocal distances for those who feel they don't have time to zoom in, find focus, and zoom out for a wide frame.
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Old February 26th, 2006, 08:15 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson
I often use image stablisation and wonder if I will miss it on the JVC.
Doubtful, the centre of gravity of the HD100 is closer to the shoulder (especially when a Anton Bauer or IDX battery system is added) so OIS is not a huge loss.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson
I have the MA 200 with the battery pack on the canon. Does the HD100 have this feature with the extra battery?
No, but The IDX deal is still on until Tuesday (free IDX adapter, charger and battery) so I would act fast if I were you. Each IDX battery will last 5 hours, but the little JVC battery that comes with the camera will only last 45 minutes.
EDIT: Sorry to get your hopes up Dennis, I just realized you are in Australia. I think the IDX deal is U.S. only.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson
At the moment I only have FCPHD 4.5 and understand that I will need FCP5 for HD. Does the JVC simply use a firewire cable to capture from and how much slower is working in HD compared to DV?
You can use FCP4.5 no problem, just get HDVxDV or Lumiere HD to digitize. The only thing FCP5 can do (with regard to HDV) that FCP4.5 can't is log, digitize, and edit native HDV 720P30. FCP5 doesn't digitize 720P24 or 720P25 anyway, so you would still need HDVxDV or Lumiere HD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Robinson
Do you notice the HD100 has a shallower D.O.F. than the Canon.
D.O.F. characteristics will be exactly the same since they are both 1/3" CCDs.
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