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Old March 5th, 2006, 07:41 AM   #1
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Increasing/Getting Shallow DOF

Is there any way, besides getting an adapter obviously to increase the DOF on the HD100? I've been conforming old footage shot with a sony vx2000 and an FX1 that features a lot better DOF (shallow) than the HD100... Neither the vx2000 or FX1 are particularly cinematic cameras but when conformed to 23.98 and compared with the footage I've shot with the HD100, in terms of the depth of field and the coloration, I've found the VX2000 and FX1 to be far surperior in terms of image quality (scaled down resolution to VX2000 quality). I'm about to shoot a new project with the HD100 but looking at all three cameras objectively, the HD100 is the least cinematic... I'm wondering if there's any way to get more shallow DOF besides standing back and zooming, which doesen't work as well so far as I can tell with the HD100 as the VX2000 or FX1... I know there's the cinemek which won't really be available again for half a year and must be used with rods, the PandS technik which is totally unaffordable for a young indie filmmaker and the redrock micro which has had mixed results with this camera... perhaps there's something I'm not doing right with the HD100... What kind of techniques do you use/how do you manipulate the stock lens to get the greatest(most shallow) DOF? Everything I shoot seems to be in focus and therefore seem very videoish... Why would I get better DOF with the sony vx2000 or fx1 which are also designed as video cameras and not necessarily cinema/film cameras? How would you go about this for under a thousand if adapters or things were necessary?

Is there some way to manipulate the stock lens to get greater (more shallow) depth of field?
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Old March 5th, 2006, 07:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Meyers
I'm about to shoot a new project with the HD100 but looking at all three cameras objectively, the HD100 is the least cinematic...
Are you serious? This camera is a LOT more cinematic then the others you mention. Did you work with already with the HD-100 yourself?
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Old March 5th, 2006, 08:33 AM   #3
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Bruce

Are you remembering to set iris at no more than f2.8?

An iris ring on this camera are a great tool. Not available on either of the other cameras you mention, I believe.

Sorry if this is insulting!

Cheers

Tony
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Old March 5th, 2006, 08:59 AM   #4
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buy a 35mm adapter (look in the alternate imaging forum) to give you the same DOF as 35mm film
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Old March 5th, 2006, 09:09 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Meyers

Is there some way to manipulate the stock lens to get greater (more shallow) depth of field?
Use the lens at it widest aperture. However, I suspect allowing for picture quality from these lenses something like f2.8 will be the most you can go. You could also shoot with a longer focal length lens.

BTW A greater DOF is more DOF or a deep focus effect, a shallow DOF is the only term you needed to use.

Unfortunately, you won't get a really shallow DOF on a 1/3" CCD camera, it's difficult enough to achieve on 2/3" CCD cameras.

For a given f stop and focal length the DOF won't change between different brands of 1/3" CCD cameras.
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Old March 5th, 2006, 09:13 AM   #6
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DOF is basically a combination of the following:
1. imager (film frame) size
2. focal length of lens
3. aperture

Given the fact the the imager size of all the cameras you mentioned is identical, the only difference should be the remaining two factors. There is a great calculator for PalmPilot called pCAM by David Eubank at www.davideubank.com Try it and you will see what is the best combination for any given shot, in fact, it can help you design your shots for best results.
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Old March 5th, 2006, 12:37 PM   #7
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Why

Blimey,

I know a shallow depth of field is part of a film look but with dv/hdv it seems like it is perhaps given too much attention. I just finished a shoot at the end of last year with Alfonso Cauron (Children of Men). We were lucky enough to see about a half hour edited rough cut. It looked great and the whole thing was done hand held on an 18mm Cooke. As Chris Hurd said in a post elsewhere you can have all the the tools available (as most hollywood features do) but it just doesn't mean you're gonna make good films. The funny thing is everyone here knows this yet the DOF thing still seems obsessive. I would say if you can't make something half descent with hd100 as standard my guess is you could probably by all the 35mm adapters you can afford and you still won't make anything good.

Greg
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Old March 5th, 2006, 12:45 PM   #8
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???Bruce Meyers???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Meyers
Neither the vx2000 or FX1 are particularly cinematic cameras but when conformed to 23.98 and compared with the footage I've shot with the HD100,?

Are you another Bruce Meyers from The Maldives? I'm sure I read in another post somewhere that there was a Bruce Meyers from the Maldives who could not shoot any footage as he was in a wheelchair. I am a tad curious/confused.
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Old March 5th, 2006, 12:48 PM   #9
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Is there some way to manipulate the stock lens to get greater (more shallow) depth of field?[/QUOTE]

Have you tried using a neutral density filter? These can be helpful for opening the iris and manipulating depth of field.
Reg
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Old March 5th, 2006, 03:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reg Carter
Is there some way to manipulate the stock lens to get greater (more shallow) depth of field?
Have you tried using a neutral density filter? These can be helpful for opening the iris and manipulating depth of field.
Reg[/QUOTE]

Related, but more of an observation...
It's a win/lose situation, as having the iris between 2.8 - 1.4 just about insures CA on our HD100 (your results may vary). However at 5.6 - 2.8 you have lass CA but also less shallow DOF. I often wonder what others are doing to work around this. Our DP and camera operator had a tough time getting the shallow "look" right without destrying that same look with CA. In the end we decided a good working image without CA (and less of a shallow DOF) was our answer.
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Old March 5th, 2006, 03:48 PM   #11
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Depth of Field

Hi Bruce,

A shallow depth of field can be easily accomplished by operating the lens at or near it's most open iris setting, ie: between f1.4 and f4.0. If the iris needs to be more closed than that to prevent over-exposure, then it's time to use a Neutral Density (ND) filter. The GY-HD100U has two ND filters built-in - a 1/4 and a 1/16. If, after trying these two settings, your iris is still not in the f1.4 to f4.0 range, then you will either need to reduce the light on the scene, or use a front-of-lens mounted ND filter. You also then use the front ND filter in combination with the built-in ND filters to achieve even greater ND.

Regards, Carl
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Old March 5th, 2006, 06:11 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Corke
Are you another Bruce Meyers from The Maldives? I'm sure I read in another post somewhere that there was a Bruce Meyers from the Maldives who could not shoot any footage as he was in a wheelchair. I am a tad curious/confused.
funny, i was thinking the EXACT same thing, anyhoot, Bruce, why dont you share the footage from the other cameras so we can see exactly what you mean, i'm curious, especially after the "filmic" comment of the JVC, i'd just love to see the comparison that you have to get a better understanding
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