TrueColor part 2 - Gamma, knee and stretch

Paolo Ciccone · March 13th, 2006, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harris Ueng

Paolo, Tim, Stephen, et al... I just wanted to take a quick opportunity to give you guys a big THANKS

You're very welcome. I'm glad that you have found my little contribution useful.

--
Paolo

Marc Colemont · March 19th, 2006, 10:12 AM

Hi Paolo,

By using your scene file the colors are much better to be used in post after shooting!
To my personal taste. I have changed one setting back to zero, the black level which was set to -2. Because I was missing some dark grey levels during shooting. Black stretch was not helping to get them in.
Was there a specific reason why you have put that level to -2?

Thanks again for sharing your scene settings.

Marc Colemont

Paolo Ciccone · March 19th, 2006, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc Colemont

Hi Paolo,
Was there a specific reason why you have put that level to -2?

Thanks again for sharing your scene settings.

You're very welcome Marc, I'm glad it's of help for you. If you look at the WFM charts in part 1 of my article you'll see a black chip inthe middle of the monitor. That is the cavity black chip in the middle of the DSC chart. I just tried to move that to the 0 IRE mark, where it should be. If you get crushed blacks even with the Black Stretch at 3 it could be that our two cameras are different enough to treat black slighly differently. The only way to know is to use the same chart on a WFM and see where the black chip gets positioned.

Take care.

Marc Colemont · March 19th, 2006, 04:55 PM

Indeed I don't have a DSC chart at the moment. It's on my list. Then we could make a good comparison.

Daniel Patton · March 23rd, 2006, 09:05 PM

Paolo,

Another happy customer here, thank you very much for all of your findings / settings. I have been using the DSC matched settings since you first posted them, our camera has been producing imazing results. It's a far better look over the factory settings IMHO.

However, I also had to adjust the black level back to zero, as did Marc Colemont. It just was not getting enough of the grey areas and crushed the blacks a little too much for my taste. And more so as an editor, I like the control to crush the blacks when and where needed in post.

Regardless, good job Paolo and thanks again.

Steven Thomas · March 23rd, 2006, 11:37 PM

It looks like I too will have to raise my black level to 0.
My blacks are crushed and mid tones fall off into black to soon.

Other than that, the colors look well balanced. Thanks Paolo.

Paolo Ciccone · March 24th, 2006, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Patton

Another happy customer here, thank you very much for all of your findings / settings. I have been using the DSC matched settings since you first posted them, our camera has been producing imazing results. It's a far better look over the factory settings IMHO.

However, I also had to adjust the black level back to zero, as did Marc Colemont. It just was not getting enough of the grey areas and crushed the blacks a little too much for my taste. And more so as an editor, I like the control to crush the blacks when and where needed in post.

Regardless, good job Paolo and thanks again.

Hi Daniel.
Thanks for the feedback, I'll check the black level results soon. I'm looking at some footage I shot today of a subject with dark grey suit and it look OK to me but I do like a more contrasted image :). Regardless, I'll do some more measurements and see what is the difference with the black at -2 or at 0.

I appreciate all the feedback as these articles were really meant to stimulate discussion and compare results so, this is all good :) and I'm glad that the colors have improved for you too. This is a gorgeous camera, it just need to be tweaked right :)

Tom Chaney · March 24th, 2006, 04:50 AM

Paolo,

I have been using your settings and I find them very nice on some interiors that I have done, however I have to agree with the comments above about the blacks when shooting exteriors.

They appear to be almost too dark.

Should I just pull the black level to 0?

Thanks again for all of your hard work, and help.

It is greatly appreciated.

Tom Chaney

Council Bradshaw · March 24th, 2006, 06:24 AM

For me I usually adjust the blacks anyway given the scene I'm trying to capture. Its the first tweak I make when trying to set the mood with the camera. Whats's been helpful to me is assigning my user buttons to black stretch 1, 2 and black compress. Its a handy little trick that I find myself using a lot. Its easy and fast.
I've been using Paolo's setup(or slight variation) for about a month now and everything I've shot looks incredible. I hardly CC during the edit.
Thanks again Paolo.

Marc Colemont · March 24th, 2006, 06:52 AM

I just received my camera back with new firmware, update kit and recalibration for some slight SSE. In the weekend I will do a test again with the black at 0 or -2. To see if it has changed after the calibration.

Steven Thomas · March 24th, 2006, 07:54 AM

Marc,

Let us know how your camera works after the upgrade.
thanks

Paolo Ciccone · March 24th, 2006, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Council Bradshaw

Whats's been helpful to me is assigning my user buttons to black stretch 1, 2 and black compress. Its a handy little trick that I find myself using a lot. Its easy and fast.
I've been using Paolo's setup(or slight variation) for about a month now and everything I've shot looks incredible. I hardly CC during the edit.
Thanks again Paolo.

You're welcome Council, glad it works for you. I use the user buttons too, assigned with Stretch 1 to 3.

Paolo Ciccone · March 24th, 2006, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Chaney

Paolo,

I have been using your settings and I find them very nice on some interiors that I have done, however I have to agree with the comments above about the blacks when shooting exteriors.

They appear to be almost too dark.

Should I just pull the black level to 0?

Thanks again for all of your hard work, and help.

It is greatly appreciated.

Tom Chaney

Tom, are checking the clips on your PC/Mac screen or on a monitor? Anyway, experiment with teh black level. I use my config with the black level at -2 with the stretch at 1 or 3 depending on the scene.
Thank you for the feedback.

John Vincent · March 24th, 2006, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Chaney

Paolo,

I have been using your settings and I find them very nice on some interiors that I have done, however I have to agree with the comments above about the blacks when shooting exteriors.
They appear to be almost too dark.
Tom Chaney

Hey Tom - what kind of experiments have you done so far? I just got the IDX battery, so I have been limited in what I could test. Any surprises, pleasant or otherwise?

John

evilgeniusentertainment.com

Tom Chaney · March 24th, 2006, 07:10 PM

Hey John and Paolo,

I'm working on a feature film that is about 4 guys banding together again to make a sequel to a B-movie they made ten years ago.

The four guys all grew up together and we see them as kids peppered throughout the movie, and the kids are "re-making" scenes from their favorite movies, Rocky, Star Wars, Raiders, Godfather, etc.

We don't start production until the summer, but we've been shooting some of the stuff with the kids.

Paolo's settings are giving me the happy, "Technicolor" look that I want for the project and the only surprise is how Dog gone good this camera is. It is truly like shooting film (only cheaper - and easier)!

Paolo I have a 42" HiDef Plasma that I have been viewing the footage on, and then I have been editing on a MAC based system. I also have a smaller HiDef monitor that I use when dumping to my computer.

I sure hope that I didn't sound like I was complaining earlier, your settings are excellent, but I think that I am going to pull the black in a little.

PS. John, let me know if you need a hand - or me with my camera as a second operator.

Thanks again,

Tom

March 23rd, 2006, 09:05 PM	#20
Daniel Patton Major Player Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Knoxville TN Posts: 589	Paolo, Another happy customer here, thank you very much for all of your findings / settings. I have been using the DSC matched settings since you first posted them, our camera has been producing imazing results. It's a far better look over the factory settings IMHO. However, I also had to adjust the black level back to zero, as did Marc Colemont. It just was not getting enough of the grey areas and crushed the blacks a little too much for my taste. And more so as an editor, I like the control to crush the blacks when and where needed in post. Regardless, good job Paolo and thanks again. __________________ Our eyes allow us to see the world - The lens allows others to see the world through our eyes. RED ONE #977

March 24th, 2006, 06:24 AM	#24
Council Bradshaw Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 44	user settings helpful For me I usually adjust the blacks anyway given the scene I'm trying to capture. Its the first tweak I make when trying to set the mood with the camera. Whats's been helpful to me is assigning my user buttons to black stretch 1, 2 and black compress. Its a handy little trick that I find myself using a lot. Its easy and fast. I've been using Paolo's setup(or slight variation) for about a month now and everything I've shot looks incredible. I hardly CC during the edit. Thanks again Paolo.

March 19th, 2006, 10:12 AM	#17
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Hi Paolo, By using your scene file the colors are much better to be used in post after shooting! To my personal taste. I have changed one setting back to zero, the black level which was set to -2. Because I was missing some dark grey levels during shooting. Black stretch was not helping to get them in. Was there a specific reason why you have put that level to -2? Thanks again for sharing your scene settings. Marc Colemont

March 19th, 2006, 04:55 PM	#19
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Indeed I don't have a DSC chart at the moment. It's on my list. Then we could make a good comparison.

March 23rd, 2006, 11:37 PM	#21
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	It looks like I too will have to raise my black level to 0. My blacks are crushed and mid tones fall off into black to soon. Other than that, the colors look well balanced. Thanks Paolo.

March 24th, 2006, 04:50 AM	#23
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Paolo, I have been using your settings and I find them very nice on some interiors that I have done, however I have to agree with the comments above about the blacks when shooting exteriors. They appear to be almost too dark. Should I just pull the black level to 0? Thanks again for all of your hard work, and help. It is greatly appreciated. Tom Chaney

March 24th, 2006, 06:52 AM	#25
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	I just received my camera back with new firmware, update kit and recalibration for some slight SSE. In the weekend I will do a test again with the black at 0 or -2. To see if it has changed after the calibration.

March 24th, 2006, 07:54 AM	#26
Steven Thomas Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 1,896	Marc, Let us know how your camera works after the upgrade. thanks

March 24th, 2006, 07:10 PM	#30
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Hey John and Paolo, I'm working on a feature film that is about 4 guys banding together again to make a sequel to a B-movie they made ten years ago. The four guys all grew up together and we see them as kids peppered throughout the movie, and the kids are "re-making" scenes from their favorite movies, Rocky, Star Wars, Raiders, Godfather, etc. We don't start production until the summer, but we've been shooting some of the stuff with the kids. Paolo's settings are giving me the happy, "Technicolor" look that I want for the project and the only surprise is how Dog gone good this camera is. It is truly like shooting film (only cheaper - and easier)! Paolo I have a 42" HiDef Plasma that I have been viewing the footage on, and then I have been editing on a MAC based system. I also have a smaller HiDef monitor that I use when dumping to my computer. I sure hope that I didn't sound like I was complaining earlier, your settings are excellent, but I think that I am going to pull the black in a little. PS. John, let me know if you need a hand - or me with my camera as a second operator. Thanks again, Tom