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Old March 9th, 2006, 10:17 AM   #1
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TrueColor part 2 - Gamma, knee and stretch

Hi.

I worked on a second version of my configuration for the HD100. The second article is focused on the Gamma, knee and black stretch settings and measurement of the latitude of the camera. I believe this final configuration has both accurate color representation and wider latitude of my previous attempt and will give you a robust signal to use in post.

The detailed article is at http://www.paolociccone.com/hd100-calibration-2.html.

Enjoy!

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Old March 9th, 2006, 11:17 AM   #2
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Paulo,

That's a great article... scientific, yet easy to understand.

You have come to the same conclusions that I have found in practice lately.
I have also recently been using a knee setting of 90% in controlled situations and lowering it to 85% or 80% when needed (subject backlit by bright sky/window.) I still tend to use black stretch 2 or 3 most of the time because I prefer to have shadow detail I can darken in post, rather than no shadow detail at all.
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Old March 9th, 2006, 12:13 PM   #3
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Paulo,

That's a great article... scientific, yet easy to understand.
Thanks Tim.
It's quite interesting that the CineLike gamma has a very visible shift in latitude compared to the standard gamma. There is practically no documentation in the JVC book and you really have to shoot controlled tests in order to verify it.
That article from Panasonic was really an eye opener.

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Old March 9th, 2006, 09:39 PM   #4
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Sticky thread?

Tim,

Shouldn't this be a sticky thread? It is so helpfull that I am afraid it will be lost!

Luis
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Old March 9th, 2006, 11:26 PM   #5
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Great stuff Paolo. One thing about the scene file though, it is oversaturated in Red, Magenta and Yellow (to me). Here's where my vector lines up. I find that the blues are lost and the reds are blown out. Are you seeing oversaturation on the hot side of the color wheel compared to the cool side?
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Old March 10th, 2006, 12:59 AM   #6
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Great stuff Paolo.
Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
One thing about the scene file though, it is oversaturated in Red, Magenta and Yellow (to me). Here's where my vector lines up. I find that the blues are lost and the reds are blown out. Are you seeing oversaturation on the hot side of the color wheel compared to the cool side?
Well, this scene is heavily overexposed in order to observe the effect of the knee function, looking at the chart in the monitor you will not see pleasant colors. Once you have the settings dialed in your camera, with correct exposure you should see very good colors, generally richer than the factory settings but definitely accurate.

Also keep in mind that you should dial the gain in your VScope in order to get the DSC colors in the boxes. The DSC colors will not fall in the Yellow or Red boxes without increasing the gain. This is by design.

In any event, don't judge the colors based on the knee testing clip, that's a bad example and it's there just to demostrate the effect of that circuit on the highlights.

Cheers.
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Old March 10th, 2006, 01:00 AM   #7
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It is so helpfull that I am afraid it will be lost!
Thank you for the appreciation Luis.

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Old March 10th, 2006, 01:28 AM   #8
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I dont have vectorscopes and charts and stuff but on my cam it seems pretty oversaturated as a whole when using these settings. I have to actually turn the color gain down as much as -3 before it looks right to me. There may be quite a bit of variation from cam to cam. But again, I am just eyeballing it.
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Old March 10th, 2006, 01:38 AM   #9
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I dont have vectorscopes and charts and stuff but on my cam it seems pretty oversaturated as a whole when using these settings. I have to actually turn the color gain down as much as -3 before it looks right to me. There may be quite a bit of variation from cam to cam. But again, I am just eyeballing it.
Ian, are you watching the scene on a monitor/lcd... Have you checked white balance? Anyway, it could be that different cameras have slightly different offsets in the color matrix but it should be pretty subtle. The response from my camera is very close to reality with the result on calibrated monitor a little less saturated than what I see in the LCD

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Old March 10th, 2006, 10:32 AM   #10
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Color Matrix: Standard

It's been pointed out to me that I didn't say what color matrix I used: CineLike or Standard. It's Standard, I updated the pages to make it clear.

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Old March 10th, 2006, 07:12 PM   #11
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Paolo,

Very nice settings. Thanks for your hard work. I have been trying to establish a setting that is almost Technicolor like for my film this summer, and this may be it.

I shot some interiors today and they were vibrant. I look forward to doing some exteriors this weekend.

If we use your settings on the project I will credit you as you asked on your website.

Thanks,

Tom Chaney

www.tomchaney.com
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Old March 10th, 2006, 07:44 PM   #12
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Paolo,

Very nice settings. Thanks for your hard work.
You're very welcome Tom. I saw your post mentioning the need for a "Technicolor" look and I was going to to suggest it. Glad you like the configuration, good luck with your project.

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Old March 11th, 2006, 12:53 PM   #13
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Hi,
Im a new user of the HD100. Out of the box the settings look drab, but following this thread, and using the latest settings you made nailed the best settings IMHO for this amazing camera!

Thank you Paolo for sharing this valuable information.
Our next projects require rich saturation of colors while maintaining filmic qualities in contrast and gamma. Your settings are perfect.
We will be doing tourism promotional videos for several Islands in Asia and I will credit your contribution in our work.

More power to you and God bless.

Ted
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Old March 12th, 2006, 01:12 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Ted Ramasola
Hi,
Thank you Paolo for sharing this valuable information.
Our next projects require rich saturation of colors while maintaining filmic qualities in contrast and gamma. Your settings are perfect.
We will be doing tourism promotional videos for several Islands in Asia and I will credit your contribution in our work.
Thank you Ted, glad you found my config good for you.
BTW, I'm now in LA where we are shooting (Lance B and Tip and yours truly tagging along :)) an instructional video using 3 HD100 all set with the "TrueColor" config and everything looked great. I would post frame grabs but I don't think I have the license to do it yet. I'll ask if we can do it.

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Old March 12th, 2006, 11:02 AM   #15
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Paolo, Tim, Stephen, et al... I just wanted to take a quick opportunity to give you guys a big THANKS for all your contributions to the greater community. It's been a while since I've posted, but since picking up the HD100U, I've been avidly reading. All of you are the best examples of a sharing and giving community! Lovin' it! THANK YOU!
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