Decision making

[Antony Quintin]

Hello, thanks for your comment :)

Its not the effect Im after, what I am really asking is can I capture subjects, like sports, football, motor racing etc, WITHOUT juddering!!!!!!??????

[Antony Quintin]

Would the standard DV 576/50i mode cope with this?

Sorry I am a little confused!! hence the questions!!!!!

thanks for your inut so far ppl!

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Antony Quintin

I am shying off away from the HD100 at the mo as the fact that it can not cope with fast moving images well.

The reverse is true! The 1080i codec cannot cope with fast moving images. It, like all 20-25Mbps 1080i, has MPEG-2 motion blocks on complex images. The 720p codec does not.

Perhaps you are saying that you don't like the way 24fps (film) handles motion. What you call judder. You may prefer a 60Hz temporal resolution. That's a valid view -- but you do need to know that the ability of film to handle motion is dependent on the shooter's ability to shoot film. There's nothing wrong with the HD100.

Now if you don't want to shoot using film rules, then you simply switch on the Smooth Motion filter. Now the CCDs are shooting at 60Hz. And, you no longer are shooting at 24fps.

I think folks are telling you the cost of batteries should NOT be the deciding issue in purchasing an HD camcorder.

[Antony Quintin]

Thank you that was what I wanted to know.

Yes I understand what ppl are saying and it is true....but I am just trying to decide on a range of different factors....and batteries....equals extra expensive equals....more thinking, if you understand what I mean.

Yes I do like using 24f mode etc, but all I was asking was if the HD100 can handle standard filming subjects, like ppl running, cars moving etc, in SD mode.....but as you say I would need to change to motion smoothing mode etc to gain this way of shooting...is that correct?

[Brian Drysdale]

Originally Posted by Antony Quintin

Thank you that was what I wanted to know.

Yes I understand what ppl are saying and it is true....but I am just trying to decide on a range of different factors....and batteries....equals extra expensive equals....more thinking, if you understand what I mean.

Yes I do like using 24f mode etc, but all I was asking was if the HD100 can handle standard filming subjects, like ppl running, cars moving etc, in SD mode.....but as you say I would need to change to motion smoothing mode etc to gain this way of shooting...is that correct?

Film cameras shoot these subjects all the time.

I assume, since you're mentioning prices in pounds, you're in the UK. This would mean that you'd be shooting 25p rather than 24p, so you wouldn't have the pull down effect that you get in the USA when they transmit anything shot at 24 fps on TV.

However, if you want to have the look of live TV broadcasts at sporting events you would need to shoot interlace rather than progressive.

Why not ask your local dealer if you can test the camera.

[Antony Quintin]

Not even in SD mode?

[Barry Green]

The HD100 supports shooting in two modes, HD and SD.

In HD, you cannot get the judder-free look of 60p or 60i, it just doesn't record those formats.

In SD, you can get super-smooth judder-free footage at either 480/60p or 576/50p, you can also get smooth judder-free footage in DV mode at 60i (or 50i, depending on if you have an American or European HD100).

So -- if you want the filmlike look, the HD100 can deliver that in HD or SD. If you want the "looking through a window" look, it can only deliver that look in SD.

[Peter Dolman]

Antony

if you are interested to see some sports footage with the HD100
go to www.vidprostudios.com

most of the footage there was taken awhile ago when I first started shooting with my HD100 ... yet I think it will provide you a good idea of the HD100 look for shooting action
The BMX footage in both 30p and 24p, although not 60i, is still quite smooth
and watchable to my eye

cheers
Pete

[Steve Mullen]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

The HD100 supports shooting in two modes, HD and SD.

In HD, you cannot get the judder-free look of 60p or 60i, it just doesn't record those formats.

If you REALLY want progressive and 60Hz capture -- you've got a third option which is the HVX200. It is the ONLY 720p60 camcorder you can find for under $10K. It is PERFECT for fast action.

However, it is not yet available in the PAL version. And, if you don't like the handheld Z1 you may not like the HVX -- although Pana usually nails the ergonmics better than Sony.

Unfortunately, if price is an issue -- P2 likely won't work for you.

A thought about batteries. I probably wouldn't spring for IDX either. How much would a half dozen JVC batteries ordered from B&H cost?

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen

A thought about batteries. I probably wouldn't spring for IDX either. How much would a half dozen JVC batteries ordered from B&H cost?

The man could probably solicit here to get some free batteries. I have a couple sitting here staring at me right now. His problem will be charging them. They take a long time to charge.

[Brian Drysdale]

The number of batteries required depends on how much heavy duty filming you're doing.

Given that the JVC batteries only last 20 mins, you couldn't really use them on the 8 to 12 hour shooting days that are common in the industry. You also have to allow for not being close to power supplies during the day, so you'd need at least two IDX type batteries as part of the kit, ideally three, plus a fast charger (or an overnight charger than can handle all your batteries).

Of course all this depends on what you're buying the camera for, but if it's being used professionally you can't be in position that you've run out of batteries. Changing the JVC batteries so often will also mean that you increase the chance of it dying just at the moment you need to get the shot.

Switching the camera off to save the battery is no excuse if you miss the shot you've been waiting for.

[Chris Hurd]

Buying a professional battery solution for the HD100 should be considered a necessary expense associated with the camera. Remember that professional camcorders traditionally do not come with batteries; they'll include an AC power adapter in the kit but it's not at all uncommon for the batteries to be a separate purchase item. Look at it this way, whether you choose IDX, Aspen or A/B, those batteries and charger are things you can move from one camera to another. When the time comes to sell your current cam, you'll keep those batts to use with your next pro video camera.

I've always thought of that little 40-minute battery included with the HD100 as an emergency batt, or as something to get you up and shooting right out of the box, like those low-capacity flash cards included with a digital still camera.

[Jiri Bakala]

In fact, most professional cameras don't include ANY power, no lens and no cover or bag, they usually only come with a tripod adaptor. Some cameras don't even have VF. The reason is obvious; the cameraman/owner can decide what lens, batteries, cases THEY need/like. And as Chris said, most of those accessories stay with you and simply move to the next camera.

[Brian Luce]

Originally Posted by Barry Green

So -- if you want the filmlike look, the HD100 can deliver that in HD or SD. If you want the "looking through a window" look, it can only deliver that look in SD.

Has anyone come up with a solution to this? it IS a shortcoming afterall...
Is there a way to get a video like image in the hd100 in hd?

(There was a funny thread in some ENG forum with all these newsguys bitching that they couldn't get rid of the HVX200's filmlike appearance.)

[Stephen L. Noe]

Originally Posted by Brian Luce

Has anyone come up with a solution to this? it IS a shortcoming afterall...
Is there a way to get a video like image in the hd100 in hd?

(There was a funny thread in some ENG forum with all these newsguys bitching that they couldn't get rid of the HVX200's filmlike appearance.)

Yes,
The BR50 deck will transcode tape content to 1080i or you can easily do it on any capable NLE's timeline. Interlacing from a progressive source is relatively easy and the results are almost always excellent. Making progressive from interlace, on the other hand, is quite time consuming and the results never seem to be as good.