HD100 or DVX100b? at DVinfo.net

Ashley Cooper · March 29th, 2006, 05:22 AM

I'm selling my old pd150 and want to buy one of these two cams. There seem to be two sales that expire this friday, so I'm trying to decide. Unfortunately I've never even seen an HD100 up close, much less test it out for myself. So I've been trying to do the research, but was wondering:

1- Which camera will retain its value better in the coming year?
2- Which might be easier to recoop its cost through renting the cam out?(dvx100b $3100 after discount, HD100 $5200)
3- How does the audio compare to the DVX100 (which Jay Rose of DV.com claims to be about the same as DAT) in both DV and HDV (compressed) modes. I would be using this to capture my on set audio (mostly dialog), but I'm more of an audio than video guy, so this is very important to me.
4- Is there any way to add 35mm lenses using an M2 w/o using any sort of lens in between (like the stock lens)?
5- Can someone please explain the battery situation? 40 stock battery. Got that. TapeWorks Texas has some kind of deal, but I can't even figure out how long that battery lasts. Prices and hours seem hard to find, or maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.

Sorry for the long list. I promise I spent most of the past couple days researching, but I could use some assistance here. So thanks ahead of time for any help!

Chien Huey · March 29th, 2006, 06:53 AM

1- Which camera will retain its value better in the coming year?
The HD100. It's a newer camera and it's HD. The DVX is a great camera in its own right but it's been around for awhile. When I had access to the classifieds here, I saw DVX100/As going for about $2000-$2500. You may want to consider a used 100A unless you need a 100B-specific feature. Also, check out DVXuser, there's supposedly a DVXuser discount for the 100b from Abel Cine. That might lower the price more. Also, with the HVX out, I think the DVX rebate will stick around if not increase.

2- Which might be easier to recoop its cost through renting the cam out?(dvx100b $3100 after discount, HD100 $5200)
The answer to 1 applies here. Also, consider that there are many more DVXs out there to contend with. Lots of friends who lend friends DVXs for free. You might be able to get $100/day for it (tops). I haven't seen any rental houses in NYC carry the HD100 in their fleets but I'd imagine, if you did rent it out, you'd definitely get more money than a DVX.

3- How does the audio compare to the DVX100 (which Jay Rose of DV.com claims to be about the same as DAT) in both DV and HDV (compressed) modes. I would be using this to capture my on set audio (mostly dialog), but I'm more of an audio than video guy, so this is very important to me.
From what I understand, HDV compresses audio. Not sure exactly how much and whether it does it all the time or only when the video stresses the codec. The DVX is recording DV which specifies uncompressed audio.

4- Is there any way to add 35mm lenses using an M2 w/o using any sort of lens in between (like the stock lens)?
DVX - going through the stock lens no matter what. HD100 - lens is detachable. I don't have experience with the M2 but have used the P+S Technik mini35 adapter. If you plan on using the mini35 or that type device, I'd say go with a detachable lens camera. You lose some light w/ the adapter and then when you go through the DVX built-in lens and you lose even more because you have to zoom in.

5- Can someone please explain the battery situation? 40 stock battery. Got that. TapeWorks Texas has some kind of deal, but I can't even figure out how long that battery lasts. Prices and hours seem hard to find, or maybe I'm just not looking in the right places.
Don't know about the HD100 batteries but the DVX is kinda battery-hungry. DVXuser sells special batteries that last hours. http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/battery/

Tim Gray · March 29th, 2006, 09:32 AM

3 - The HD100 records in 384 kbs mp3 if I remember correctly. While it is compressed, it most likely sounds very very good - I don't actually know for sure since we've only used our cam with an external audio recorder. Voices are relatively simple compared to music, and many people can't determine a 192kbs mp3 from the original CD.

Also note that JVC has made mention of recording separate uncompressed PCM audio track to tape in addition to the HDV signal. Don't know if this is true.

5. Stock battery last about 40 mins. Takes forever to charge. The IDX battery (the one in the promo) lasts 4-5 hours. The promo kit sells at B&H for about 700-800 dollars. You get the battery mount, a battery, and a dual charger. Batteries charge relatively quick, last for a long time, and have a pretty cool mount. There is an accessory power tap on the battery mount for running lights, hard drive recorders, etc. The IDX system makes the camera balance a lot better on the shoulder too. Additional batteries are about $170. They make larger capacity batteries, as well as "stackable" ones, so you can put 2 on the cam at the same time.

It's a pro battery system and it really feels like one. I can't believe we got it for free.

We were contemplating getting a DVX100b too. I've used the DVX100 quite a bit. Great camera. The HD100 is a better camera in my mind, even for DV - it's 16:9 and a great form factor. Just ask yourself if you want handycam form factor or shoulder mount and if the step up in image quality is worth the extra cash.

Joe Bowey · March 29th, 2006, 12:27 PM

I am just waiting for my HD100 to arrive at my door any minute. You can use the camera in SD mode and it will look as good if not better then the DVX camera then when your ready for HDV your there.
Look at other threads this camera is HOT and will last you for years. I purchased mine through Texas tape Scott Cantrell is the best.
The battery special is a MUST but you must purchase the camera by the 31st in order to get the free battery. They have extended the time in which you must send in the forms to get the battery. I think it is April15. BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO PURCHASE CAMERA BY THE 31st. of MARCH. Thats friday.
The reason I bought it was to get professional work. The DVX does has its place and is an excellent camera.

Ashley Cooper · March 30th, 2006, 04:17 AM

Just wanted to thank you all for the help. I appreciate your taking the time. This is a tough decision. EVS told me their IDX deal lasts until April 15th and the dvx100b discount apparently has been extended until the end of May. So, there's a little bit more time. Just wish the hd100 had slowmo in hd resolution and also that I could test it out first. Oh well.

Joe Bowey · March 30th, 2006, 09:13 AM

I saw a demo of slow motion shot on the HD100 camera. It was of a soccor match and it looked great. I think they shot it at 720/60 and did something in post to slow it down.
Texas tape today is the last day to order the camera and get the free battery. Just got my camera yesterday and it is a beauty.
Ask for Scott Cantrell about using it for slow mo. This is a very hot camera so you can purchase it today and resell it later and probably get you money back. Especially if you have the free batteries with it.

John Mitchell · March 31st, 2006, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashley Cooper

Just wish the hd100 had slowmo in hd resolution and also that I could test it out first. Oh well.

THe HD100 will do slo mo in both SD resolution and HD. SD (or more correctly ED as it's really 50/60 PROGRESSIVE frames) to tape and in HD it will output the xtra frames only via the component outputs on the camera so you need an external recording device capable of ingesting HD Component. The only camera short of a Varicam or Viper that will record at higher frame rates is the HVX200 with P2 cards.

THe DVX100B will not do hi-def at any frame rate (without some expensive mods and an external recorder) so if that's a real factor for you then why even consider the 100B?

Diogo Athouguia · March 31st, 2006, 07:41 AM

I have 2 stills that I shot with a DVX100A and the HD100 in 4:3 DV mode. If you're insterested to see them just send me your email. The HD100 is superior in definition and latitude, I see no reason but the price to purchase a DVX100.

Ashley Cooper · April 1st, 2006, 02:28 AM

Diogo, Thank you for the offer and yes, please send the pics! I'd love to take a look.
But, the reason I would buy a dvx100 over an HD100 (if that's the way I go in the end) would be for 1- money, 2-audio. Wish Jay Rose would give the HD100 a write up sometime soon.

Diogo Athouguia · April 1st, 2006, 02:19 PM

Ashley, unless you use the cameras mic I don't think you'll find much difference. They both use uncompressed PCM audio (when in DV mode on the HD100).

March 29th, 2006, 05:22 AM	#1
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	HD100 or DVX100b? I'm selling my old pd150 and want to buy one of these two cams. There seem to be two sales that expire this friday, so I'm trying to decide. Unfortunately I've never even seen an HD100 up close, much less test it out for myself. So I've been trying to do the research, but was wondering: 1- Which camera will retain its value better in the coming year? 2- Which might be easier to recoop its cost through renting the cam out?(dvx100b $3100 after discount, HD100 $5200) 3- How does the audio compare to the DVX100 (which Jay Rose of DV.com claims to be about the same as DAT) in both DV and HDV (compressed) modes. I would be using this to capture my on set audio (mostly dialog), but I'm more of an audio than video guy, so this is very important to me. 4- Is there any way to add 35mm lenses using an M2 w/o using any sort of lens in between (like the stock lens)? 5- Can someone please explain the battery situation? 40 stock battery. Got that. TapeWorks Texas has some kind of deal, but I can't even figure out how long that battery lasts. Prices and hours seem hard to find, or maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. Sorry for the long list. I promise I spent most of the past couple days researching, but I could use some assistance here. So thanks ahead of time for any help!

March 29th, 2006, 06:53 AM	#2
Chien Huey Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 59	1- Which camera will retain its value better in the coming year? The HD100. It's a newer camera and it's HD. The DVX is a great camera in its own right but it's been around for awhile. When I had access to the classifieds here, I saw DVX100/As going for about $2000-$2500. You may want to consider a used 100A unless you need a 100B-specific feature. Also, check out DVXuser, there's supposedly a DVXuser discount for the 100b from Abel Cine. That might lower the price more. Also, with the HVX out, I think the DVX rebate will stick around if not increase. 2- Which might be easier to recoop its cost through renting the cam out?(dvx100b $3100 after discount, HD100 $5200) The answer to 1 applies here. Also, consider that there are many more DVXs out there to contend with. Lots of friends who lend friends DVXs for free. You might be able to get $100/day for it (tops). I haven't seen any rental houses in NYC carry the HD100 in their fleets but I'd imagine, if you did rent it out, you'd definitely get more money than a DVX. 3- How does the audio compare to the DVX100 (which Jay Rose of DV.com claims to be about the same as DAT) in both DV and HDV (compressed) modes. I would be using this to capture my on set audio (mostly dialog), but I'm more of an audio than video guy, so this is very important to me. From what I understand, HDV compresses audio. Not sure exactly how much and whether it does it all the time or only when the video stresses the codec. The DVX is recording DV which specifies uncompressed audio. 4- Is there any way to add 35mm lenses using an M2 w/o using any sort of lens in between (like the stock lens)? DVX - going through the stock lens no matter what. HD100 - lens is detachable. I don't have experience with the M2 but have used the P+S Technik mini35 adapter. If you plan on using the mini35 or that type device, I'd say go with a detachable lens camera. You lose some light w/ the adapter and then when you go through the DVX built-in lens and you lose even more because you have to zoom in. 5- Can someone please explain the battery situation? 40 stock battery. Got that. TapeWorks Texas has some kind of deal, but I can't even figure out how long that battery lasts. Prices and hours seem hard to find, or maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. Don't know about the HD100 batteries but the DVX is kinda battery-hungry. DVXuser sells special batteries that last hours. http://www.dvxuser.com/articles/battery/

March 29th, 2006, 09:32 AM	#3
Tim Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Media, PA Posts: 144	3 - The HD100 records in 384 kbs mp3 if I remember correctly. While it is compressed, it most likely sounds very very good - I don't actually know for sure since we've only used our cam with an external audio recorder. Voices are relatively simple compared to music, and many people can't determine a 192kbs mp3 from the original CD. Also note that JVC has made mention of recording separate uncompressed PCM audio track to tape in addition to the HDV signal. Don't know if this is true. 5. Stock battery last about 40 mins. Takes forever to charge. The IDX battery (the one in the promo) lasts 4-5 hours. The promo kit sells at B&H for about 700-800 dollars. You get the battery mount, a battery, and a dual charger. Batteries charge relatively quick, last for a long time, and have a pretty cool mount. There is an accessory power tap on the battery mount for running lights, hard drive recorders, etc. The IDX system makes the camera balance a lot better on the shoulder too. Additional batteries are about $170. They make larger capacity batteries, as well as "stackable" ones, so you can put 2 on the cam at the same time. It's a pro battery system and it really feels like one. I can't believe we got it for free. We were contemplating getting a DVX100b too. I've used the DVX100 quite a bit. Great camera. The HD100 is a better camera in my mind, even for DV - it's 16:9 and a great form factor. Just ask yourself if you want handycam form factor or shoulder mount and if the step up in image quality is worth the extra cash.

March 29th, 2006, 12:27 PM	#4
Joe Bowey Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 217	I am just waiting for my HD100 to arrive at my door any minute. You can use the camera in SD mode and it will look as good if not better then the DVX camera then when your ready for HDV your there. Look at other threads this camera is HOT and will last you for years. I purchased mine through Texas tape Scott Cantrell is the best. The battery special is a MUST but you must purchase the camera by the 31st in order to get the free battery. They have extended the time in which you must send in the forms to get the battery. I think it is April15. BUT YOU STILL HAVE TO PURCHASE CAMERA BY THE 31st. of MARCH. Thats friday. The reason I bought it was to get professional work. The DVX does has its place and is an excellent camera.

March 30th, 2006, 04:17 AM	#5
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Just wanted to thank you all for the help. I appreciate your taking the time. This is a tough decision. EVS told me their IDX deal lasts until April 15th and the dvx100b discount apparently has been extended until the end of May. So, there's a little bit more time. Just wish the hd100 had slowmo in hd resolution and also that I could test it out first. Oh well.

March 30th, 2006, 09:13 AM	#6
Joe Bowey Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 217	I saw a demo of slow motion shot on the HD100 camera. It was of a soccor match and it looked great. I think they shot it at 720/60 and did something in post to slow it down. Texas tape today is the last day to order the camera and get the free battery. Just got my camera yesterday and it is a beauty. Ask for Scott Cantrell about using it for slow mo. This is a very hot camera so you can purchase it today and resell it later and probably get you money back. Especially if you have the free batteries with it.

March 31st, 2006, 07:41 AM	#8
Diogo Athouguia Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portugal Posts: 282	I have 2 stills that I shot with a DVX100A and the HD100 in 4:3 DV mode. If you're insterested to see them just send me your email. The HD100 is superior in definition and latitude, I see no reason but the price to purchase a DVX100.

April 1st, 2006, 02:28 AM	#9
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Diogo, Thank you for the offer and yes, please send the pics! I'd love to take a look. But, the reason I would buy a dvx100 over an HD100 (if that's the way I go in the end) would be for 1- money, 2-audio. Wish Jay Rose would give the HD100 a write up sometime soon.

April 1st, 2006, 02:19 PM	#10
Diogo Athouguia Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portugal Posts: 282	Ashley, unless you use the cameras mic I don't think you'll find much difference. They both use uncompressed PCM audio (when in DV mode on the HD100).