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GY-HD 100 & 200 series ProHD HDV camcorders & decks.

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Old April 27th, 2006, 12:32 PM   #16
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I want to pipe in with my opinion on JVC and it's support of the HD100.

I used to work at a TV network that used Sony gear. We had problems with everyone of our DSR-50 studio cameras. We would call Sony and they wouldn't offer any support options. We kept sending them in for repair at the local shop, and still the problems kept coming back. After a year of asking for help, Sony finally sent an engineer out from New Jersey and he was able to find the problem and resolve it. We are talking about a small TV shop that dropped over $500K into buying new Sony gear.

Now look at the support that JVC has provided to people that have bought a $5K camera. Big difference. It's one of the reasons that I purchase an HD100 when I recently upgraded my camera.

In fact I had an issue with the camera when I received it from the dealer and the next day I had a call from Carl Hicks and we were able to resolve the problem. Now that's support!!!

I wouldn't let the fact that a few cameras had some issues keep you from buying the camera. When there have been issues, JVC has risen to the occasion and solved the problem. I would rather deal with a company that is willing to fix things than one that keeps it's head buried in the sand.

Just my $0.02.

Dan Weber
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Old April 27th, 2006, 01:36 PM   #17
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In my experience there is no such thing as a completely mature and perfect product. That is why support is important and ROI. Because there will always be something else new around the corner. I'v worked with Sony, Panasonic, Avid, and now JVC. And with JVC so far it has been a great experience. My first Avid Media Composer cost $85,000. I had to get an SBA loan and more than 3 years to pay for it. And the nightmare of non linear online in 1993 required me to pay an extra $5000 in support fees/year.

This JVC Camera represents (along with other technologies a new way to look at suppport and ROI.)

Life is good, be creative, make a living doing what you enjoy. Dig it. This camera empowers that.

My first HD gig was with a 3:1:1 camera. The Sony f900 HD CAM. The guy I rented it from at the time paid $125,000 for it. The color was very muted and required a lot of color correction. The client was thrilled. My current clients that I use the HD 100 for productions are thrilled. My clients are the ultimate judge.

In my opinion, this camera looks better in 24p as the HD CAM F900 circa 2004.

Enough SSE crap.
David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center
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Old April 27th, 2006, 05:55 PM   #18
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Once a camera model (or manufacturer for that matter) has a reputation for a problem which the HD100 got with SSF over its first few months of release it is too late. Unless you know how to track technical aspects such as forums, A model release/repairs etc then you will always see this model as problematic, and if it can be avoided it should. Its human nature. I know it is problems like this that has stopped at least one major rental house in Australia from getting any HD101s into stock, they went HVX200 instead. I still told them I thought they were going the wrong way but clearly Panasonics marketing to them has been superiour.

Of the 12,000 owners of the HD100, how many do you think actually visit this site, let alone know this forum even exists? Maybe 10%? Now what about the global videographer market? Far far less! So most will not be in here to learn so many like you guys have such few or no issues? Then again I am in here and see enough recuring people still with SSF occuring even after calibration that it continues to concern me enough to avoid a purchase unless absolutely nessesary.

Just my opinion of course, and opinions are like armpits they say, everyone has one and often they stick.
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Old April 27th, 2006, 11:06 PM   #19
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I deleted the last two posts because we don't want this to go down that path.

Guy. Your points are valid, but we should try to avoid speculating on the consumer impact of negative feedback that cannot be quantified or verified. Your example of the rental house in Australia is a good one, but does not represent an equal impact on all rental houses.

All of the HD cameras in this price range have competed against each other for months, and they all have their pros and cons. The bottom line is that they all produce incredible pictures and I hope that every potential purchaser does as much research as you have to buy the right camera for the job.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 12:33 AM   #20
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Guy, this is really starting to sound like a broken record. You've belabored your point over and over, and so far, at least at this site..everyone who actually owns the camera disagrees with you. You are entitled to your opinion, but you going to have to accept the fact that you are wrong.

I waited awhile to purchase this camera myself, and my decision was made not only on the cameras features, but JVCs' commitment to it. I've been around long enough to tell you about some really bad product put out by Sony, RCA,Hitachi and others that never got fixed. Lots of exucuses, but never fixed.
I'm not assuming you haven't got your own stories to tell.

You've done nothing but disrepect JVC either directly or by what many call 'damning with faint praise'. ie great features, but it's a JVC....

The negative 'reputation' issue with the camera has been laregely reversed by word being spread around by those who own and use it. Word of mouth has done what no multi million dollar ad campaign could do. At NAB the opinons of EVERY one I met about this cam was positive, even those who've never heard of dvinfo.net or any other sites. I noticed that non HD-100 users at other sites are the only remaining hardcore skeptics, and much of what they say is pure uninformed BS.

So Guy, is there some sort or lingering anger at JVC over past issues? I'm truly sorry if JVC Australia has problems because users deserve good support no matter where they live.
But you seem to be beating a dead horse when it comes to this camera. Are you saying you can't even rent an HD-100 to try it out for yourself? Sorry to hear that if it's true. It might settle all your questions and give you closure.

Or maybe you should just move on to another brand? Your call, but you seem awfully dissatisfied with JVC in general. Fortunately there are plenty of great options out there for you. Don't worry, we'll be fine.
Boycott Guinness, bring back the pint!!!
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Old April 28th, 2006, 01:01 AM   #21
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Hi Joe.

My own experiences (as an HD101E owner) with JVC Australia have been excellent. Dominic (local JVC rep) and Noel (from Sydney head office) have been terrific and are very service-oriented. They really believe in this camera and have shown 100% commitment to it and any service issues. I totally agree with you about the importance of that aspect.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 07:23 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Carl Hicks
Thank you Jake for your words of reason!
Yes- thankfully I was able to inject some reason into this discussion before it got out of hand...

Except, not so much...
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Old April 28th, 2006, 09:15 AM   #23
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Mention SSE in the HD100 forum, or pixel shifting or "true progressive" at the H1 forums and you're gonna get a lot of people mad at you. It appears from official statements and opinions of some really smart people here that the extent of SSE is determined by how skilled the technician is. Unfortunately, when the SSE postings first appeared nobody could or would say exactly how it was caused or whether it could be fixed. I think many people who saw one, made the assumption that every other model produced identical results. So, if someone saw one with SSE at 0 db, he couldn't understand how some other guy in another country could be so stupid not to notice it on their model. The problem was they were both right, given their limited information.

Its obvious now that JVC was working hard on this and some of the other major complaints (battery life, better lenses, etc...) However, I agree with Guy's comments that the HD100 would probably have been a runaway hit from the get go if someone had done better QC in the beginning. I had sworn off the HD100, but the HD200 looks like it has potential.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 10:10 AM   #24
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I agree that the JVC intially lost some sales due to SSE.

Also, I also agree that Panasonic lost SOME sales on the HVX200 (I'm one of them) due to noise levels and Canon H1 lost SOME sales due to their 24F opposed to 24P.

With all of these cameras you have to decide what you're willing to live with.
Fortunately, after listening to great resources on this JVC forum, I decided I needed to try the HD100.

Well that's all that took!
I don't have SSE unless I'm using more than 6dB gain. Even then, it's hard to make it show. Well, since I do not use gain, SSE will never be a problem to me. If it arrises over time, I'll send it back to get calibrated.

This is a very workable solution. It beats not having a workable solution.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 10:34 AM   #25
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I've noticed one thing - There are plenty of us HD100 owners who have no problems posting problems about the cameras we own. Why do we do it? Probably because we are professionals and we know that if we ever want anything fixed, improved, addresed, etc. we need to make these problems known.

I don't want to suggest that the users of other cameras on other forums are not professionals but I notice that they tend to post how wonderful and perfect their cameras are and tear apart anyone that questions this. Why people defend their brand to the death is beyond me.

The HD100 is a great camera, plenty of shoot outs and tests have been done by working professionals to prove this. The fact that there are two processors to split the workload of delivering true 1280x720 makes sense to me. Does this mean that some care needs to be taken when shooting in extreme conditions? Sure. This camera pulls more resolution from its chip than a 70K + Varicam. Think about it folks. This camera also feels and works like the 25K, 50K and 100K cameras. Shoulder mount, buttons in the right place, etc.

For people like GUY - there will come a time where you will post information you "heard from the grapevine" that will just be flat out wrong. You will end up looking like an idiot and nothing positive will come from it. So why do it in the first place? I have no problem with someone posting an opion based on first hand experience, but when you can't verify something yourself and you don't even own the camera you are posting about what good does your "opinon" do?

P.S. About SSE and GAIN. If you are using more than 6db in gain why do you even care about the SSE effect? First you have to really look for it to see it in the first place but your bigger problem might be that grain floating all around your image from using way too much gain. That is your real problem.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 10:46 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Tim Holtermann
but your bigger problem might be that grain floating all around your image from using way too much gain. That is your real problem.
Hence, why I mentioned I don't use gain.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 10:50 AM   #27
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Exactly. Just mentioned it to clarify for the SSE misinformation addicts.
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Old April 28th, 2006, 10:56 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Steven Thomas
Hence, why I mentioned I don't use gain.
Hasn't overreliance and misuse of gain been an issue since tube cameras in the early 80's?. Steve and Tim said it right. Unless your shooting "Cops" or event related footage, don't rely on gain.

Cheers for sanity and common sense.
David Parks: DP/Editor: Jacobs Aerospace at NASA Johnson Space Center
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Old April 28th, 2006, 08:21 PM   #29
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Thanks to all who gave their input on this thread -- but due to the personal nature of several recent replies, this topic is very much done for now. For the individual who felt he was misunderstood and "crucified" here, my advice is, become an effective communicator and it's less likely you'll be misunderstood.

My apologies to Joe Carney -- for Joe, I appreciated your replies but we have to keep things technical and to the point. I'm sorry that a couple of yours were culled as well. It was great to finally meet you in Vegas this week.

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