Report from JVC booth at NAB at DVinfo.net

Tim Dashwood · April 26th, 2006, 11:52 AM

Hi guys,

I’ve been out of loop for the last 48 hours, but I am at the NAB WiFi Restaurant right now using their free WiFi to update you on what I saw yesterday at the JVC booth. I apologize if this is all “old news” and has already been in a press release on the JVC site, or someone else may have already posted the info.

I finally met a bunch of people from dvinfo.net in person yesterday. Chris Hurd and Nate Weaver hung out with me for a couple of hours, but I also ran into Steve Mullen, Andrew Young and Charles Papart. It’s nice to put a face to the names. I also met many of the U.S. JVC guys: Craig Yanagi, Edgar Shane, Ken Freed, Carl Hicks, Paul Kasparian and of course the very friendly Bob Mueller.

So here’s the info on the new stuff shipping in the fall:

HZ-CA13U PL mount adapter. – This is more than just an adapter – it is a re-imager. The end result is a field-of-view of Super-16 using PL mount lenses. The image will be inverted and flipped, but the two new cameras will unflip the image ON TAPE. This is a BIG DEAL and something that was on my wishlist for ages. My goal today is to find out how this thing actually works since it supposedly does not have a ground glass/focusing screen. There is not alot of information on this thing... not even a MSRP.
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...HD200-PL_B.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...HD200-PL_C.JPG

GY-HD200 - $7995 with stock lens
-All the features of the HD100 plus:
-New encoder
-720P60 to HDV tape
-Image Flip for new HZ-CA13U PL Mount adapter
-Cosmetically the same as the HD100 except that the little metallic stripe on the side is gold.

GY-HD250 - $8995 body only
-Same features included with HD200
-HD/SD SDI OUT
-TC IN/OUT
-Built-In Anton bauer Mount
-Pool Feed input
-optional studio configuration.
-The RCA jacks are now composite video, auidio left/right.

The new encoder built into HD200 & 250 uses 12-frame GOP for 60P. Still 19.2Mbps
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/HD250_A.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/HD250_B.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/HD250_C.JPG

SA-HD50 Encoder/decoder
-HD SDI IN/OUT
-1394 IN/OUT
-Less than 300ms latency

Forthcoming update to Final Cut Pro 5.1 that will support 720P24 natively. No ETA yet.
The one macbook Pro running the 720P24 demo had a special NAB preview version. When I looked at the version number it just said “FCP 5.1+” so it isn’t even an official beta. The Apple guy told me that previewing software this way at NAB is highly unusual for Apple. The oddest thing is that the big sign read “Final Cut Studio 5.1 – Native HDV 24P.” Hopefully this update is released soon as a download.
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/FCP-Demo.JPG

Lenses:
Canon Prototype lens – KT20x5BKRS HDGC
20x5 (5mm to 100mm)
T 1.4 – minimum focus 3 feet.

Fuji T17x5 BRM lens and a Motorized version (BMD) for studio configuration.
There is apparently another lens, but only these three were on display.
NOTE: I just looked at the photo I took of the HD250 and it had a lens I can't identify, although it looks similar to the Th13x3.5.)
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...New_Lenses.JPG

JVC was also demoing direct to microwave transmission of 19.2Mbps stream for broadcast.
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...Microwave1.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...Microwave2.JPG

The DR-HD100 Firestore seems to be working with quicktime transcoding, but all of the sample clips I played with were 720P30. I'll see if I can test 720P24 workflow with it this afternoon.

Today I’m going to check out the Ultra High Definition theatre with 8x HD resolution. I will attempt to attend Nate's conference, but I’m also going to try to visit the rest of the booths on my hitlist before I fly out tonight. Two days is not enough time!

I’ll check back in Thursday night.

Ultra HD theatre:
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/8K-Cam1.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/8K-Cam2.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD1.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD2.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD3.JPG
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD4.JPG

The mysterious RED Booth:
http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures.../Red-Booth.JPG

Mike Marriage · April 26th, 2006, 12:27 PM

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the summary.

Can you try and find out whether FCP 5.1+ will support 720p25 please?

Cheers!

Tim Dashwood · April 26th, 2006, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

Hi Tim,

Thanks for the summary.

Can you try and find out whether FCP 5.1+ will support 720p25 please?

Cheers!

I asked yesterday and no one knew. My plan today is to shoot some footage in 24 and 25 and see if they'll let me ingest it. I also want to test the DR-HD100 while I'm here.

Ram Ganesh · April 26th, 2006, 01:26 PM

Are they re-engineering the CCD capture to avoid the split screen for 200/250?

I hope they redo it some other way - the market wont digest another 'send the camera to re-calibrate' idea again...

Webb Pickersgill · April 26th, 2006, 03:39 PM

Hi Tim,
It was a pleasure to bump into you at the JVC booth on Tuesday afternoon. Thanks for all the info (both here and through our conversation). I'm pretty much sold on the HD100, so it's just a matter of financing at this point.

Ashley Cooper · April 26th, 2006, 03:58 PM

Some very nice stuff there and things that a few years ago would have seemed too much to hope for. My one complaint though is that if you've got HD-SDI out on the 250, you should have (or at least be working on) a portable way to record at higher bit rates than HDV. I know someone's working on a harddrive 'deck' for uncompressed capture from HD-SDI and has posted about it in the General HD / HDV Acquisition forum. Just thought this would be an area JVC might go to complete more with Sony's XDCAM line, especially once you put on a nice super 16mm lens!
With their work on things like the SA-HD50U, wouldn't this be a better direction to go?

Joe Bowey · April 26th, 2006, 05:04 PM

I was told at the JVC booth that the 16mm lens adapter will be $1200 MSRP.
And it will work on the 100 model too.
Ultra high def WOW. Got a little nasuead when the camera panned. The basketball clip was amazing, not only did the game seem as if you were there but you can observe a guy on the top seats of the arena picjing his nose crystal clear.
Ffrom what I have seen is there is SOOOOOOOOO much going on in the picture that one can tell a story without moving the camera because you can see something going on in the corner and look down to see something else going on.
I can see numerous scenes going on at the same time from one shot. A new way of telling a story.

Steve Benner · April 26th, 2006, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

I asked yesterday and no one knew. My plan today is to shoot some footage in 24 and 25 and see if they'll let me ingest it. I also want to test the DR-HD100 while I'm here.

I am really concerned with the DR-HD100. I am going to be buying either the HD100 or the HVX200 very soon and I want a tapeless workflow. Please let us know if it works. Thanks.

Chad Terpstra · April 26th, 2006, 05:34 PM

I'm in a similar boat. -Between the HD-100 and HVX. My IDEAL camera would no doubt be the 100/200 with a hard drive & switchable formats (choosing from DVCProHD to uncompressed) - much like the HVX. I feel like I'm choosing between a superior camera or a superior capture method/codec.

Paolo Ciccone · April 26th, 2006, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

Forthcoming update to Final Cut Pro 5.1 that will support 720P24 natively.

Thank you Tim. That was the most important information for me. Love Apple's products but sometimes they put us under a lot of stress :)
Makes you wonder how long it will take for the industry to support the new codec of the HD200/250

Brian Luce · April 26th, 2006, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chad Terpstra

I'm in a similar boat. -Between the HD-100 and HVX. My IDEAL camera would no doubt be the 100/200 with a hard drive & switchable formats (choosing from DVCProHD to uncompressed) - much like the HVX. I feel like I'm choosing between a superior camera or a superior capture method/codec.

if you're looking for reasons NOT to buy the hvx200, the ones I used were price of P2 media and short record times.

I read a post from a guy who used a hvx to record a wedding, he used about 9000 dollars in P2 and P2 Store. Maybe he could have used less, I really don't know. Most reports say the cameras produce similar images but factoring in media costs, the hvx is about double the overall cost.

Carl Hicks · April 26th, 2006, 11:36 PM

Steve / Chad:

The DRHD100 works well. I've used it personally. Many file format choices in SD. In HD mode: So far, only the native .m2t. But, plans are to add the .mov file format soon with a firmware update. For now, if you edit on FCP, then you can use a converter tool to change files from .m2t to .mov

See this thread for other good reports.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=64956

Regards, Carl

Tim Dashwood · April 26th, 2006, 11:53 PM

I'm sitting here at McCarren Airport waiting for my plane and they actually have free wifi.

Anyway, I found out a bit more on the DR-HD100 Firestore drive. Carl Hicks and I tried it in all modes. The unit attached at the JVC booth was running preview software that was able to wrap 720P30 HDV into a Quicktime .mov for direct editing in FCP 5. This is not transcoding, it is essentially the same way FCP handles native 720P30 HDV.
We couldn't get the Quicktimes to replay in the viewfinder. One of the focus guys told me they are working on this aspect for QT wrapped files, but the issue is that the stream is demuxed for quicktime and needs to be re-muxed for playback review in the HD100.

In 720P24 and 720P25 mode the DR-HD100 only gave us the option of m2t recording. A Focus guy told me tonight that they are working on this and that it will be offered as an update (probably via CD in the mail) for $39.

Timecode seemed to be maintained in all modes, but I'm uncertain how the m2t manages it, or if Lumiere HD or HDVxDV would be able to read it.

I spoke to a couple of Apple guys about the ETA of the 24P HDv update to FCP and they had no idea when the update would be released, but the consensus seemed to be that it would be a downloadable auto-update. No one could tell me if 720P25 would also be supported in that same update.

In the afternoon I swung by the Serious Magic booth to inquire about ProHD 24/25 support. I didn't really get any answers today, but I'll let you guys know if they email anything to me. The funny thing was that as soon as I walked up to the DVRack presentation Windows crashed on the presenter and he had to reboot. I didn't have time to wait around so I didn't really see the presentation.

I hit the RED booth today and met Graeme Nattress and Jarred Land in person (finally.) This is a very cool project. We have a forum dedicated to it.

The Ultra High Resolution Theatre presentation was awesome. 8K and 22.2 surround sound! I took pictures of the camera and the spec sheet - I'll upload tomorrow.

I ran into Barry Green at the Panasonic booth. Some of that 60P HVX footage looks awesome. Pixel shifting or not, the end result in those samples were definitely impressive.

I attended the FCP User'sGroup Supermeet tonight at the Rio. Chris Hurd, Nate Weaver, Rob Lohman, Dylan Couper, Greg Boston, Robert Kirkpatrick & Mike Teutsch were all there. We took a photo - I'll upload it tomorrow, along with my numerous photos of other stuff at NAB..

uploaded: http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...VINFO-GUYS.JPG

My flight is boarding now.... more tomorrow.

Chad Terpstra · April 27th, 2006, 07:16 AM

Sounds great, Tim. Can't wait to see all your pics. Hopefully I'll be able to go next year.

I was wondering something. What would be the chances of the DR-HD100 firestore drive eventually being able to record in say Apple Intermediate Codec or even DVCProHD eventually? I know it's a stretch, but the main reason I'm not falling for the HD100 completely is the HDV compression is good, but not great -or even great but not perfect. I've noticed a lot of smearing in the lower tones (below 30%). Sometimes it results in actual trails as seen in the sticky "Extensive HD100/Mini35 Hands on test" at the top of this board:
http://video.terpstar.com/extra/JVC-HD-100_Capture.jpg

I saw this in the "Nightwalk Left" clip. And yes, it jumped out at me the first play through.

I know it's probably not possible to bypass the MPEG encoder for HD on this camera, but if you could, I'd be sold.

Paolo Ciccone · April 27th, 2006, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Dashwood

In the afternoon I swung by the Serious Magic booth to inquire about ProHD 24/25 support. I didn't really get any answers today, but I'll let you guys know if they email anything to me.

Tim, I'm not sure if you mean support of the HD100 24p in DVRack. I used DVRack with the HDV power pack in 24p for a few months. I saw on the SM forum, before NAB, that they have implemented 709 color space and that will be part of the next update of DVRack.

April 26th, 2006, 11:52 AM	#1
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Report from JVC booth at NAB Hi guys, I’ve been out of loop for the last 48 hours, but I am at the NAB WiFi Restaurant right now using their free WiFi to update you on what I saw yesterday at the JVC booth. I apologize if this is all “old news” and has already been in a press release on the JVC site, or someone else may have already posted the info. I finally met a bunch of people from dvinfo.net in person yesterday. Chris Hurd and Nate Weaver hung out with me for a couple of hours, but I also ran into Steve Mullen, Andrew Young and Charles Papart. It’s nice to put a face to the names. I also met many of the U.S. JVC guys: Craig Yanagi, Edgar Shane, Ken Freed, Carl Hicks, Paul Kasparian and of course the very friendly Bob Mueller. So here’s the info on the new stuff shipping in the fall: HZ-CA13U PL mount adapter. – This is more than just an adapter – it is a re-imager. The end result is a field-of-view of Super-16 using PL mount lenses. The image will be inverted and flipped, but the two new cameras will unflip the image ON TAPE. This is a BIG DEAL and something that was on my wishlist for ages. My goal today is to find out how this thing actually works since it supposedly does not have a ground glass/focusing screen. There is not alot of information on this thing... not even a MSRP. http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...HD200-PL_B.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...HD200-PL_C.JPG GY-HD200 - $7995 with stock lens -All the features of the HD100 plus: -New encoder -720P60 to HDV tape -Image Flip for new HZ-CA13U PL Mount adapter -Cosmetically the same as the HD100 except that the little metallic stripe on the side is gold. GY-HD250 - $8995 body only -Same features included with HD200 -HD/SD SDI OUT -TC IN/OUT -Built-In Anton bauer Mount -Pool Feed input -optional studio configuration. -The RCA jacks are now composite video, auidio left/right. The new encoder built into HD200 & 250 uses 12-frame GOP for 60P. Still 19.2Mbps http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/HD250_A.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/HD250_B.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/HD250_C.JPG SA-HD50 Encoder/decoder -HD SDI IN/OUT -1394 IN/OUT -Less than 300ms latency Forthcoming update to Final Cut Pro 5.1 that will support 720P24 natively. No ETA yet. The one macbook Pro running the 720P24 demo had a special NAB preview version. When I looked at the version number it just said “FCP 5.1+” so it isn’t even an official beta. The Apple guy told me that previewing software this way at NAB is highly unusual for Apple. The oddest thing is that the big sign read “Final Cut Studio 5.1 – Native HDV 24P.” Hopefully this update is released soon as a download. http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/FCP-Demo.JPG Lenses: Canon Prototype lens – KT20x5BKRS HDGC 20x5 (5mm to 100mm) T 1.4 – minimum focus 3 feet. Fuji T17x5 BRM lens and a Motorized version (BMD) for studio configuration. There is apparently another lens, but only these three were on display. NOTE: I just looked at the photo I took of the HD250 and it had a lens I can't identify, although it looks similar to the Th13x3.5.) http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...New_Lenses.JPG JVC was also demoing direct to microwave transmission of 19.2Mbps stream for broadcast. http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...Microwave1.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...Microwave2.JPG The DR-HD100 Firestore seems to be working with quicktime transcoding, but all of the sample clips I played with were 720P30. I'll see if I can test 720P24 workflow with it this afternoon. Today I’m going to check out the Ultra High Definition theatre with 8x HD resolution. I will attempt to attend Nate's conference, but I’m also going to try to visit the rest of the booths on my hitlist before I fly out tonight. Two days is not enough time! I’ll check back in Thursday night. Ultra HD theatre: http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/8K-Cam1.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...06/8K-Cam2.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD1.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD2.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD3.JPG http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...6/UltraHD4.JPG The mysterious RED Booth: http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures.../Red-Booth.JPG __________________ Tim Dashwood

April 26th, 2006, 03:39 PM	#5
Webb Pickersgill Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Louisville, CO Posts: 204	Hi Tim, It was a pleasure to bump into you at the JVC booth on Tuesday afternoon. Thanks for all the info (both here and through our conversation). I'm pretty much sold on the HD100, so it's just a matter of financing at this point. __________________ Webb Pickersgill Bassline Digital, LLC

April 26th, 2006, 11:36 PM	#12
Carl Hicks JVC America Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: McKinney, TX Posts: 516	Drhd100 Steve / Chad: The DRHD100 works well. I've used it personally. Many file format choices in SD. In HD mode: So far, only the native .m2t. But, plans are to add the .mov file format soon with a firmware update. For now, if you edit on FCP, then you can use a converter tool to change files from .m2t to .mov See this thread for other good reports. http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=64956 Regards, Carl

April 26th, 2006, 11:53 PM	#13
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	I'm sitting here at McCarren Airport waiting for my plane and they actually have free wifi. Anyway, I found out a bit more on the DR-HD100 Firestore drive. Carl Hicks and I tried it in all modes. The unit attached at the JVC booth was running preview software that was able to wrap 720P30 HDV into a Quicktime .mov for direct editing in FCP 5. This is not transcoding, it is essentially the same way FCP handles native 720P30 HDV. We couldn't get the Quicktimes to replay in the viewfinder. One of the focus guys told me they are working on this aspect for QT wrapped files, but the issue is that the stream is demuxed for quicktime and needs to be re-muxed for playback review in the HD100. In 720P24 and 720P25 mode the DR-HD100 only gave us the option of m2t recording. A Focus guy told me tonight that they are working on this and that it will be offered as an update (probably via CD in the mail) for $39. Timecode seemed to be maintained in all modes, but I'm uncertain how the m2t manages it, or if Lumiere HD or HDVxDV would be able to read it. I spoke to a couple of Apple guys about the ETA of the 24P HDv update to FCP and they had no idea when the update would be released, but the consensus seemed to be that it would be a downloadable auto-update. No one could tell me if 720P25 would also be supported in that same update. In the afternoon I swung by the Serious Magic booth to inquire about ProHD 24/25 support. I didn't really get any answers today, but I'll let you guys know if they email anything to me. The funny thing was that as soon as I walked up to the DVRack presentation Windows crashed on the presenter and he had to reboot. I didn't have time to wait around so I didn't really see the presentation. I hit the RED booth today and met Graeme Nattress and Jarred Land in person (finally.) This is a very cool project. We have a forum dedicated to it. The Ultra High Resolution Theatre presentation was awesome. 8K and 22.2 surround sound! I took pictures of the camera and the spec sheet - I'll upload tomorrow. I ran into Barry Green at the Panasonic booth. Some of that 60P HVX footage looks awesome. Pixel shifting or not, the end result in those samples were definitely impressive. I attended the FCP User'sGroup Supermeet tonight at the Rio. Chris Hurd, Nate Weaver, Rob Lohman, Dylan Couper, Greg Boston, Robert Kirkpatrick & Mike Teutsch were all there. We took a photo - I'll upload it tomorrow, along with my numerous photos of other stuff at NAB.. uploaded: http://www.timdashwood.com/.Pictures...VINFO-GUYS.JPG My flight is boarding now.... more tomorrow. __________________ Tim Dashwood

April 26th, 2006, 12:27 PM	#2
Mike Marriage Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NE of London, England Posts: 788	Hi Tim, Thanks for the summary. Can you try and find out whether FCP 5.1+ will support 720p25 please? Cheers!

April 26th, 2006, 01:26 PM	#4
Ram Ganesh Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 175	Are they re-engineering the CCD capture to avoid the split screen for 200/250? I hope they redo it some other way - the market wont digest another 'send the camera to re-calibrate' idea again...

April 26th, 2006, 03:58 PM	#6
Ashley Cooper Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Birmingham, AL Posts: 85	Some very nice stuff there and things that a few years ago would have seemed too much to hope for. My one complaint though is that if you've got HD-SDI out on the 250, you should have (or at least be working on) a portable way to record at higher bit rates than HDV. I know someone's working on a harddrive 'deck' for uncompressed capture from HD-SDI and has posted about it in the General HD / HDV Acquisition forum. Just thought this would be an area JVC might go to complete more with Sony's XDCAM line, especially once you put on a nice super 16mm lens! With their work on things like the SA-HD50U, wouldn't this be a better direction to go?

April 26th, 2006, 05:04 PM	#7
Joe Bowey Major Player Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glendale, AZ Posts: 217	I was told at the JVC booth that the 16mm lens adapter will be $1200 MSRP. And it will work on the 100 model too. Ultra high def WOW. Got a little nasuead when the camera panned. The basketball clip was amazing, not only did the game seem as if you were there but you can observe a guy on the top seats of the arena picjing his nose crystal clear. Ffrom what I have seen is there is SOOOOOOOOO much going on in the picture that one can tell a story without moving the camera because you can see something going on in the corner and look down to see something else going on. I can see numerous scenes going on at the same time from one shot. A new way of telling a story.

April 26th, 2006, 05:34 PM	#9
Chad Terpstra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 320	I'm in a similar boat. -Between the HD-100 and HVX. My IDEAL camera would no doubt be the 100/200 with a hard drive & switchable formats (choosing from DVCProHD to uncompressed) - much like the HVX. I feel like I'm choosing between a superior camera or a superior capture method/codec.

April 27th, 2006, 07:16 AM	#14
Chad Terpstra Major Player Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 320	Sounds great, Tim. Can't wait to see all your pics. Hopefully I'll be able to go next year. I was wondering something. What would be the chances of the DR-HD100 firestore drive eventually being able to record in say Apple Intermediate Codec or even DVCProHD eventually? I know it's a stretch, but the main reason I'm not falling for the HD100 completely is the HDV compression is good, but not great -or even great but not perfect. I've noticed a lot of smearing in the lower tones (below 30%). Sometimes it results in actual trails as seen in the sticky "Extensive HD100/Mini35 Hands on test" at the top of this board: http://video.terpstar.com/extra/JVC-HD-100_Capture.jpg I saw this in the "Nightwalk Left" clip. And yes, it jumped out at me the first play through. I know it's probably not possible to bypass the MPEG encoder for HD on this camera, but if you could, I'd be sold.