HD100 + IDX + IDX3 Light + DR-HD100 = Headache at DVinfo.net

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Old May 4th, 2006, 08:52 PM   #1
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HD100 + IDX + IDX3 Light + DR-HD100 = Headache

Ok, call me crazy but I actually had to put off buying the DR-HD100 today (Yes it was in my hands and JVC lost a sale due to horrible product management) because of ZERO knowledge and availability of how to power the DR-HD100 with the IDX battery system.

1. Yes I know there is a D-Tap 2 Pin Connector on the IDX system. This is taken up by the IDX Light. Ok so I just need to get an adaptor to allow more D-Tap plugs to plug-in, does anyone in this world happen to know what this is? I also need a cable for the DR-HD100 - see #2.

2. Yes, the DR-HD100 comes with its own battery but it lasts for 90 min, hardly usable. Anyone care to chime in on what plug I need to adapt it to use the IDX D-Tap Plug and where I can get it?

3. How in the world do I mount the DR-HD100 to the HD100 Camera while also using the IDX Light? Use a 2 or 3 pos hot shoe adaptor? Yes, but I don't want all these accessories hanging over the front of my camera. There is an adaptor from IDX that would allow side mounting, but again - know one seems to know which adaptor. Is this is? http://www.adorama.com/IDXALWRSB.html

I'm hoping someone else has already jumped through this madness.....?
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Old May 4th, 2006, 11:15 PM   #2
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IDX accessories

Hi Tim,

Please keep in mind that JVC does not manufacture most of these accesories, so we are at the mercy of third party suppliers to get it all right.

Anton Bauer is a little further along in this process than IDX. Anton has a power cable for the DRHD100 with a D connector that plugs into the power tap connector on the AB bracket. This cable might also work on the IDX. I'm actually getting one of these Friday to test for a demo next week.

Anton also makes a power splitter, that will allow the power tap to run three things, like a light, wireless mic, and the hard drive for example. This splitter might also work on IDX. I will be testing this Friday also.

IDX has several metal plates that attach to their battery bracket. This would give you a mounting surface for the HDD recorder.

Regards, Carl
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Old May 4th, 2006, 11:29 PM   #3
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Hi Carl,

Thanks for the response. Well when JVC brands the DR-HD100 (Firestore) as their own product they should probably run the ball to the end zone and make sure there are accessories. I mean seriously, I'm no rocket science but if I were the product manager at JVC I would ask my team "Ok, so we have this IDX promo where we are essentially endorsing the Battery kit to work with our HD100, how about connecting our DR-HD100 to it?". "We are rigging our HD100's, HD200's, and HD250's, with IDX and Anton Batteries can we power our accessories with the D-tap?"

Why on earth would you not roll out the proper accessories to make things work. Does anyone over there actually have production experience? Maybe you should hire me as a consultant? Anyone with production experience would know that we need to mount Lights, Wireless Mic Adaptors, and now the DR-HD100. What good is a 6 hour record time on the DR with a 90 min battery? I understand these things take time but the DR-HD100 has been in development for some time, why is there no cable for it?

What makes things worse is that the "official" JVC website states the following: "The battery bracket has a 14.8V D-Tap accessory cable which will provide power simultaneously to DR-HD100 JVC disk recorder and to a light."

This is 100% FALSE.

Ref: http://pro.jvc.com/prof/attributes/f...l_id=MDL101584

It's not that JVC needs to make all of these but they should press (insist) that their 3rd party partners provide the right tools. After all they are gettring the JVC nod.

I really appreciate your help and if you can let me know tomorrow if it works with the Anton Bauer cable I'd really appreciate it. I'm just blown away that JVC Engineers and QA hasn't already done this leg work.

To help others here are the items in question that may work:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search

http://www.adorama.com/IDXOLWPF.html

For Anyone at Focus - Why would you not have a D-Tap Power Cable for your equipment?

As a side note, I'm talking with Shining right now about doing an extensive test of their CitiDisk HDV with the HD100. Their bracket is one of the best I've seen for the IDX system. It mounts on the V mount and provides a duplicate V mount on the back where you put the battery. Note: You do need to connect it to the side D-Tap connector if you want to power it with on board battery BUT at least they make a cable: http://www.shining.com/store/product...cat=249&page=1

Carl, you might even try the CitiDisk D-tap cable with the DR-HD100, what do you think?

Bracket: http://www.shining.com/store/product...cat=248&page=1
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Old May 4th, 2006, 11:54 PM   #4
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Just keep in mind that once you power all of that from a single AB or IDX battery, you might start taxing that battery too much. You really need to do the math and figure out what should be the max draw from the battery because if you go over, the battery will not only last a much shorter time but it will also get damaged.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 12:02 AM   #5
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That is when I'll take it over to JVC and IDX and say but your website says:

"The battery bracket has a 14.8V D-Tap accessory cable which will provide power simultaneously to DR-HD100 JVC disk recorder and to a light."

These batteries should easily be able to handle a LED light and DR-HD100.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 12:10 AM   #6
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This has been addressed in the past and was the foundation for our abject refusal to deal with IDX anymore. Their solution, if you can believe this, is to disassemble the d-end, reverse the pins so the wire exits the other way and then re-assemble it. Of course this totally voids the warranty but that's IDX's solution. The issue wasn't covered here but over on DVXCUser.com. You're right, it's just another "What were they thinking" headscratcher deal on IDX's part. AS for JVC, it's really hard to keep up with all their partners. They rightly expect partners to think things through ojk JVC does but sometimes stupid things just find their way through. I'm not here, as anyone will attest, to defend JVC but this is definitely one instance where you can't blame them for depending on their partner not to do something that's so stupid.

We resorted to making our own accessory plates that hold the wirelesses but still allow for the accessories to be plugged in. It's a real simple fix that Mike Pellagatti came up with so let me know if you want the plan and I'll send it to you.
Jonathan
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Old May 5th, 2006, 10:26 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Holtermann
Does anyone over there actually have production experience? Maybe you should hire me as a consultant? Anyone with production experience...
I know things can get frustrating Tim, but I like the idea that the JVC people are so present and willing to chime in here.
I really don't think taking your concerns to the personal level encourages that and I think corporate representatives should be given the same courtesy that dvinfo requires that all members show each other.
I'm hoping for the same solution for our HD100s, but Carl already told you that they were trying to address this themselves and that he would test it next week.
I'm prety sure that insulting them won't acclerate the process.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 10:57 AM   #8
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Jim, I'm not insulting Carl what so ever. He has helped me in the past and I'm forever grateful. I think you are missing where I was aiming but that is the nature of posting text in forums.

The reason the HD100's bugs are fixed so quickly is because JVC does understand the power of "Word of Mouth". As soon as I made it known that there were Firewire capture issues with the HD100 (taking itself on/offline) it was fixed in days. However, I spent hours behind the scenes doing testing with CineForm tech support, etc to figure out that an update to the camera had broken something that previously worked. Japan had a fix days later. This then led to the "A" upgrade.

I'm a proponent of this camera, I love it, and I probably sold a couple myself by just giving it a nod to some "on the fence" customers at EVS yesterday. However, that doesn't mean that in the corporate structure of a company like JVC that there are not problems.

Tell me, what do you think is more helpful, Andrew Young taking the camera into the jungle and reporting back his findings or some guys sitting around a lab trying to design the camera in a black hole?

Don't you find it odd that this camera has been out for some time now, the DR-HD100 has been coming for some time and the IDX was promo'd with the camera, yet no one knows how to power it all? There is nothing personal about my attack. I'm simply stating that it's part of a product managers job to have answers to this and make it known. EVS is one of JVC's best sellers here in Southern CA - you should see the caliber of people that come in there to buy things. Just stand around in there for a day and you will be amazed. It should be a concern that know one there had any idea of what parts were needed, even after a call to JVC and IDX while I was standing there.

Please view this as valuable feedback to improve a company, not a personal attack. I have an event next week, I don't have time for "I don't knows". Having to rent an entire different system instead of just buying things to load up for my personal camera is not the answer. One more time for the record - this was not meant to attack Carl at all. It wasn't even directed at him, nor does he work in the dept that is ultimately responsible for this. I really appreciate him reporting back the tests, and as you see from my previous posts, I have also suggest another cable from CitiDisk that may help us all.

Feedback and Criticisim is good. Personal Attacks Bad ;)
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Old May 5th, 2006, 11:03 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Ames
This has been addressed in the past and was the foundation for our abject refusal to deal with IDX anymore. Their solution, if you can believe this, is to disassemble the d-end, reverse the pins so the wire exits the other way and then re-assemble it. Of course this totally voids the warranty but that's IDX's solution.
Run that by me again. What were you trying to plug in and what did they want you to disassemble?
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Old May 5th, 2006, 11:04 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala
Just keep in mind that once you power all of that from a single AB or IDX battery, you might start taxing that battery too much. You really need to do the math and figure out what should be the max draw from the battery because if you go over, the battery will not only last a much shorter time but it will also get damaged.
Max load on the IDX tap is 50W or the 15A fuse will blow.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 11:27 AM   #11
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It also depends on the battery; I have a couple of IDX 50s and they are rated to perform well up to 45W of a load. The camera is some 16W, a sungun light could be some 35W and you are over already. If the light is an LED it draws far less but one still needs to add it up. If you are getting near the full load, the possibility of damage to the battery is increasing.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 12:13 PM   #12
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Yes, the IDX (7s) battery load is 53w Max.

The IDX Light claims: 11W Load at 100% output.
The DR-HD100 claims: 7.5W (I think).
The JVC GY-HD100 in Record Mode: 17W

35.5W Total with enough room to spare. So seems like it should be ok.

As a side note the IDX 7s notes typical camera run-time: 2.7 hours (@ 26W) so the 35.5W load would save some of this run time off.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 12:29 PM   #13
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I was talking tap only guys. IDX list the tap alone at 50W. I tested it and indeed a 100W lamp connected to the Dtap will blow the 15A fuse.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 12:48 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Holtermann
Feedback and Criticisim is good. Personal Attacks Bad ;)

Of course and I have given both as you probably know. I just didn't think what I quoted was constructive criticism. As I said, I need D-taps for our systems immediately and like you will have to wait until JVC comes back with a solution or IDX does what they obviously should have by now. IMO they're the ones you should be asking that question of, but I'd like to see both companies come up with an immediate solutiom to what should be a very simple issue given that both the light and the hard drive system are on the market.

FWIW, the reason we haven't ordered DR-HD100s yet is because I'm waiting to see how we're going to power them. Of course it would be ridiculous to switch from brand new IDX systems to AB systems because of a $10 cable and it is perplexing that between the three companies selling expensive gear, they haven't realized that this simple power issue is likely holding up tens of thousands of dollars in sales...again over a $10 cable.

But from a realistic stand point, the real onus is on Firestore and IDX. Firestore has to become immediately aware that many people are powering their new HD-100s with IDX because of the promotion, and that a cable needs to be available.

IDX of course wants to sell many more systems to HD-100 users at retail and likewise needs to be made aware that this simple cable could prevent them from choosing IDX over AB.

What's missing is communication, because it certainly isn't an engineering hurdle.
It's much more of a very big DUH between marketing, sales and production.
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Old May 5th, 2006, 12:56 PM   #15
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I am not quite sure that I follow... If it's all just a matter of a cable, there are specialized shops that will make you a great snake with all the right connectors. One such shop is Audio Services Corp. Canada in Toronto. They will make just about anything - and really well.
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