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Old May 18th, 2006, 08:46 PM   #16
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Yeah, I'll second that. Playing with the macro ring is really fun. You really have to set up the shot, but definitely cool.
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Old May 18th, 2006, 09:41 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Joel Aaron
Yeah, but you've got to remember the Mini35 has a bunch of extra glass inside that does the image reorientation. That degrades quality and loses light too.
Not nearly as much "extra" glass as a fully functional zoom lens which can contain dozens of elements. The Mini35 just has to project the image from the ground glass onto the camera's chips, it's not even as much glass as a prime, it doesn't even have to rack focus.
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Old May 18th, 2006, 11:34 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
Not nearly as much "extra" glass as a fully functional zoom lens which can contain dozens of elements. The Mini35 just has to project the image from the ground glass onto the camera's chips, it's not even as much glass as a prime, it doesn't even have to rack focus.
But I believe the Mini35 does lose more light than the M2 and I've not seen anything showing the picture quality is better. I think that probably is due to the image flip prisms as opposed to the relay lens.

It sure seems it would be optimal to have a quality relay lens built specifically for for the M2. Or advice on how to build your own from some expert out there.
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Old May 19th, 2006, 11:54 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Stephen L. Noe
I think only if you're using primes. The stock lens or 13x lens using macro ring technique can give outstanding results as well.
As an early adopter of the Mini35 and working pretty closely with the people on the technical end, I wanted to correct this statement. You absolutely don't need primes to get a great image with the Mini35. We built our setup around a set of the best and fastest Nikon AIS glass and the images were every bit as good as the footage shot with Zeiss Super Speeds and Cookes that we used. The only difference was in breathing (no real problem) and the lack of gearing for follow-focus that is inherent in a cine prime.

P&S provides different mounts for the Mini35 because you can, in fact, use it with cine's or any 35mm glass of good quality.

Also, while I've encouraged people on getting the most (or least in this case) dof from the Fuji and Canon zooms, they can't do anything like what a Mini35 or Redrock adaptor will deliver for cinematic work.

The bottom line is, if you want to work with focal lengths and exposure that make sense and get truly shallow dof an adaptor is the only thing that will get you there because it's the only way to get true 35mm dof and fov with 1/3" chips.

Again, theat's not to say you can't blur out the background a bit or even a good bit at the longer end of the tele with a good deal of separation and a wide open iris, but can you also get a very compressed image in most situations and you can only work with tight CUs.

Working with 35mm dof you can get any degree of blur and do it with 50mm or 35mm lens the way you would choose to from a film making standpoint.

One other thing about the gearing on Nikons versus cine primes, the new Redrock follow-focus solves that problem with a set of adjustable gearing rings for your non-cine primes that should pretty much eliminate the last real difference between them as far as indie film making goes.

I was so impressed with the whole Redrock concept that I'm just ordering a whole setup today.
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Old May 19th, 2006, 12:16 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Jim Giberti
but can you also get a very compressed image in most situations and you can only work with tight CUs.
Good point. Plus, when you put the camera in motion there's a big difference in the feel of moving a 35mm lens around vs. a zoomed in Fujinon. Moving a wider FOV with shallow DOF feels very cinematic.

What Nikon lenses did you guys test?
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Old May 19th, 2006, 12:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Joel Aaron
there's a big difference in the feel of moving a 35mm lens around vs. a zoomed in Fujinon. Moving a wider FOV with shallow DOF feels very cinematic.

What Nikon lenses did you guys test?

Absolutely Joel. We built a set of primes that would pretty much emulate what you would use in a cine set (and what we would rent for a big shoot). That is 24mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm, 105mm, 135mm.

You can get by either cine or Nikon with a 35mm, 50mm, 85mm and move your camera around, but the larger set works great. I don't have all the f/stops in my head, but the 35, 50, 85mm are 1.2 - 1.4 ...very fast and solid and smooth gearing.
You want AIS fully manual to get both the build and smooth focus. The Nikon 85mm 1.4 AIS is one of the nicest lenses they've ever made and gives a gorgeous image and dof. It's almost the build and size of a cine prime, similar is the 135mm
( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...ughType=search)
All of this glass can be found on ebay or Adorama used etc, but for the money it's worth buying a core set new and adding as you need to IMO.
The 35mm 1.4 and 50mm 1.2 are great too and they're also small and short and won't add much to the front of the M2 (62mm and 53mm diameters versus the 72mm 85 and 135)
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Old May 19th, 2006, 01:42 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jim Giberti
The 35mm 1.4 and 50mm 1.2 are great too and they're also small and short and won't add much to the front of the M2 (62mm and 53mm diameters versus the 72mm 85 and 135)
Thanks for the tips. I have several lenses but like my Nikkor 85mm 1.8AF best despite being AF. I know the 85mm 1.4 is a favorite, but the 1.8 is really nice too for less money.

I'd like to test the Tamron 28-75AF 2.8. I've heard it's small, light and sharp. Certainly would be convenient for reframing quickly.
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Old May 19th, 2006, 02:14 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Joel Aaron
Thanks for the tips. I have several lenses but like my Nikkor 85mm 1.8AF best despite being AF. I know the 85mm 1.4 is a favorite, but the 1.8 is really nice too for less money.

I'd like to test the Tamron 28-75AF 2.8. I've heard it's small, light and sharp. Certainly would be convenient for reframing quickly.

It's not as fast but if you want to check out a small full manual metal Nikon with a two touch design and smooth focus look at the 35-70mm AIS. You can get a new Imported one for around $250
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