Disappointed in Redrock M2 adapter

James Hurd · June 5th, 2006, 01:11 AM

Welcome back Taylor! Hope your trip was succesful!

As you know, we've got a "Tips & Tricks" section of our new Training DVD. Now that you've had some more time working with the M2 and the different cameras, I'm sure you've come up with a few!

Be in touch soon!

Jonathan Ames · June 5th, 2006, 09:19 AM

Thanks to all of you for the help and especially Taylor. I had the chance to see Taylor work the magic in Canada last week and I have to tell you, the three of you, I guess Taylor, Brian and James, really have your stuff together. Helping each other to provide the Board with the technology that you do is what independent filmmaking is all about. When financial resources are thin, it's the team that works and I for one appreciate all that you all do. I remember a couple of months ago when I got literally hundreds of e-mails and messages thaking me for offering one or two of my cameras to independents in far away places who were having difficulties with theirs and JVC. That was nothing compared to the amount of work you all put in daily to make something like the Redrock affordable. The Redrock is a great idea and I didn't realize the work that went into making complex opicals financially available to the independent market. I'll be glad when the new ones come out that don't require "The Touch" as Taylor puts it. When you get there, alot of people will be very happy. But for now, if fiddling with the parts is what it takes to get the shot, at least with the Redrock team we have a shot to get...affordable.

Mark Haleston · June 26th, 2006, 08:20 PM

We are still in the test phase. normally I start at the top and work my way down. Out first test was a 650mm to 1300mm. This lense was such a monster I couldn't look through the view finder and reach the focus ring at the same time, it was that long. Not about M2 but any lens bigger than 300mm is going to be hard to hold steady. We took a 500mm folded lens to PIR raceway to catch Champ car on the back straights. At 180 mph these cars are flying in right at you. We picked a point to focus and let the cars run through the frame. The results were awesome. Using the Sony Z1 I am pleased so far with what I have seen. The application we reallty want is doing interviews. Unable to back up a quarter mile I want to get a good DOF when we are talking to a subject. Choices like 135mm or 70-210mm has had good results and yes we look for fast lenses and run (lens) wide open using the camera to set our stops. I will be happy to share more test in the next few months. Next is Rodeo bull riding with a 300mm following wild bulls should prove challenging. THX Mark

Winston Vargas · July 26th, 2006, 05:58 PM

You might want to take a look at my adapter. The difference is that my adapter uses 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 groundglass with an active size of 2 1/4 x 1 5/8. I also have a free DVD available to show you what can be done with the adapter. No batteries no motor, no vibrator.. for further info and photos please check www.freewebs.com/wvargas/

My adapter uses Mamiya 645 lenses...

Ram Ganesh · July 26th, 2006, 11:24 PM

that looks neat winston... good price too...

Michael Maier · July 27th, 2006, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston Vargas

You might want to take a look at my adapter. The difference is that my adapter uses 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 groundglass with an active size of 2 1/4 x 1 5/8. I also have a free DVD available to show you what can be done with the adapter. No batteries no motor, no vibrator.. for further info and photos please check www.freewebs.com/wvargas/

My adapter uses Mamiya 645 lenses...

Very interesting project Winston. But why a 70mm adapter? It's not that it will yield any more resolution. Yes, grain may be slightly less, but if you are using HD, it's already clean enough, too clean actually, at least in my opinion. But on a blow up, it wouldn't make that much of a difference because what really matters is the resolution and size of the camera's CCD. So did you do a 70mm adapter because of the even shorter DOF? I would think it would be extremely hard to work with such adapter on a feature if you don't have a real focus puller with you. It’s already hard with wide-open 35mm lenses if you are a one-man camera crew, but for each his own.
By the way, how's grain with the fixed GG?
Nevertheless, great job with the adapter. It looks very good. Can we see same footage or frames?

Winston Vargas · August 13th, 2006, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyce Mahoney

Boy, I know it's been a while since I've been here but since starting my own biz it's been 18 hour days. Listen, I have a question. At NAB I saw what I thought was the answer to my problems. At the JVC booth there was a Red Rock M2 display that had this converter that not only allowed me to use prime lenses but gave me great depth of field as well. When I talked to the RedRock people they told me that's the beauty of the Red Rock...great DOF. So I get one and put it on and NOTHING. I mean my primes fit but the depth of field is just like it always was...long and crystal clear. Has anyone else had this problem? I was promised that the M2 wuold give me film-like DOF but it doesn't. Anyone?

Please take a look at the 70mm adapter that I make for the DVX100 and other cameras. Check out this website and pass the word along.

www.freewebs.com/wvargas/

I will have some more information on DOF that you might find useful. You'l find detailed photos on the adapter. I use medium format lenses while everybody else is using 35mm.

Winston Vargas · August 13th, 2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joyce Mahoney

Ditto. Thanks for the heads-up. I'll check over there. Now it's back to the dungeon for me!

Please check out my website where you'll see my adapter plus info on DOF.
www.freewebs.com/wvargas/ I use medium format lenses and my groundglass is twice the size of a 35mm groundglass. I am now posting an article about the misconceptions of D.O.F. This might help.

Winston

Frank Hool · August 14th, 2006, 02:45 AM

Winston, i couldn't find any footage from Your adapter. Just one question without seeing one. Have You edge falloff problems with Your adapter?

Cole McDonald · August 14th, 2006, 06:32 PM

The footage looks fantabulous, I've seen it. Good subject matter well shot as well.

Mark Haleston · August 15th, 2006, 10:04 AM

Hi everyone:
Just finishing a series of spots for a large tire dealer here in the northwest we use the M2 with a 50mm. our stop was as open as we could get given lighting. As the gaffer on this project I lit for an F/2.8 we were exactly 9 feet from the talent sliding in three feet as he delivered the line. We had great success with M2. The Dp I work with has many ideas how to improve the M2. He feels that the speed of the ground glass should be faster, also he is looking into have a balanced glass piece custom made by Edmonds Scientific and a more solid mounting set up. We saw some issue as the battery wore down so switching to the power supply was a good thing. Our super cute assistant camera woman did a great job of pulling focus with the focus adapter. It gives an easy control feel to the lens and using the marks on the wheel she never buzzed the shot. M2 takes some getting used to, it is a tool that in the right hands can change the intire look of your project. Don't rush the process and then complain. Concentrate on what you are trying to acheieve. Some apps will be difficult to do, I tried to follow bull riders with a 1000mm, once I could grasp the focus it was awesome but it took time. We have even gone as far to mount the entire rig upside down to elimanate the veiwing issues. There are many creative people out here....are you one of them. THX Mt.Park Studios

Jon Jaschob · August 15th, 2006, 05:08 PM

Winston,
Really enjoyed your Miles site!
Jon

June 26th, 2006, 08:20 PM	#63
Mark Haleston Tourist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lake Oswego Oregon Posts: 2	m2 Tests We are still in the test phase. normally I start at the top and work my way down. Out first test was a 650mm to 1300mm. This lense was such a monster I couldn't look through the view finder and reach the focus ring at the same time, it was that long. Not about M2 but any lens bigger than 300mm is going to be hard to hold steady. We took a 500mm folded lens to PIR raceway to catch Champ car on the back straights. At 180 mph these cars are flying in right at you. We picked a point to focus and let the cars run through the frame. The results were awesome. Using the Sony Z1 I am pleased so far with what I have seen. The application we reallty want is doing interviews. Unable to back up a quarter mile I want to get a good DOF when we are talking to a subject. Choices like 135mm or 70-210mm has had good results and yes we look for fast lenses and run (lens) wide open using the camera to set our stops. I will be happy to share more test in the next few months. Next is Rodeo bull riding with a 300mm following wild bulls should prove challenging. THX Mark

July 26th, 2006, 05:58 PM	#64
Winston Vargas Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: new york, ny Posts: 32	70mm DOF adapter You might want to take a look at my adapter. The difference is that my adapter uses 2 1/4 x 2 1/4 groundglass with an active size of 2 1/4 x 1 5/8. I also have a free DVD available to show you what can be done with the adapter. No batteries no motor, no vibrator.. for further info and photos please check www.freewebs.com/wvargas/ My adapter uses Mamiya 645 lenses...

July 26th, 2006, 11:24 PM	#65
Ram Ganesh Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 175	that looks neat winston... good price too... __________________ http://www.wizedot.com

August 14th, 2006, 06:32 PM	#70
Cole McDonald Trustee Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Sauk Rapids, MN, USA Posts: 1,675	The footage looks fantabulous, I've seen it. Good subject matter well shot as well. __________________ Web Youtube Facebook

August 15th, 2006, 10:04 AM	#71
Mark Haleston Tourist Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Lake Oswego Oregon Posts: 2	Dof Hi everyone: Just finishing a series of spots for a large tire dealer here in the northwest we use the M2 with a 50mm. our stop was as open as we could get given lighting. As the gaffer on this project I lit for an F/2.8 we were exactly 9 feet from the talent sliding in three feet as he delivered the line. We had great success with M2. The Dp I work with has many ideas how to improve the M2. He feels that the speed of the ground glass should be faster, also he is looking into have a balanced glass piece custom made by Edmonds Scientific and a more solid mounting set up. We saw some issue as the battery wore down so switching to the power supply was a good thing. Our super cute assistant camera woman did a great job of pulling focus with the focus adapter. It gives an easy control feel to the lens and using the marks on the wheel she never buzzed the shot. M2 takes some getting used to, it is a tool that in the right hands can change the intire look of your project. Don't rush the process and then complain. Concentrate on what you are trying to acheieve. Some apps will be difficult to do, I tried to follow bull riders with a 1000mm, once I could grasp the focus it was awesome but it took time. We have even gone as far to mount the entire rig upside down to elimanate the veiwing issues. There are many creative people out here....are you one of them. THX Mt.Park Studios

June 5th, 2006, 01:11 AM	#61
James Hurd Micro35 Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 221	Welcome back Taylor! Hope your trip was succesful! As you know, we've got a "Tips & Tricks" section of our new Training DVD. Now that you've had some more time working with the M2 and the different cameras, I'm sure you've come up with a few! Be in touch soon!

June 5th, 2006, 09:19 AM	#62
Jonathan Ames 2nd Unit TV Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 509	Thanks to all of you for the help and especially Taylor. I had the chance to see Taylor work the magic in Canada last week and I have to tell you, the three of you, I guess Taylor, Brian and James, really have your stuff together. Helping each other to provide the Board with the technology that you do is what independent filmmaking is all about. When financial resources are thin, it's the team that works and I for one appreciate all that you all do. I remember a couple of months ago when I got literally hundreds of e-mails and messages thaking me for offering one or two of my cameras to independents in far away places who were having difficulties with theirs and JVC. That was nothing compared to the amount of work you all put in daily to make something like the Redrock affordable. The Redrock is a great idea and I didn't realize the work that went into making complex opicals financially available to the independent market. I'll be glad when the new ones come out that don't require "The Touch" as Taylor puts it. When you get there, alot of people will be very happy. But for now, if fiddling with the parts is what it takes to get the shot, at least with the Redrock team we have a shot to get...affordable.

August 14th, 2006, 02:45 AM	#69
Frank Hool Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Barca Spain Posts: 384	Winston, i couldn't find any footage from Your adapter. Just one question without seeing one. Have You edge falloff problems with Your adapter?

August 15th, 2006, 05:08 PM	#72
Jon Jaschob Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 232	Miles Winston, Really enjoyed your Miles site! Jon