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-   -   720p for broadcast? (http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/jvc-gy-hd-series-camera-systems/68575-720p-broadcast.html)

Dennis Stevens May 31st, 2006 12:40 PM

720p for broadcast?
 
Allow me to betray my ignorance .... :-)

If you shoot something in 720P (like with the HD100), can it be shown on HD network - which I believe has a standard of 1080i? Would it have to be converted to 1080i?

I've read through lots of posts on 720p v. 1080i, I didn't see an exact answer to that question.

If there's a thread that already answers that thanks, sorry if I'm being redundant :)

Stephan Ahonen May 31st, 2006 12:43 PM

Most networks such as FOX, ABC, ESPN and others use 720. It's only a few networks like NBC and CBS that use 1080. 720 footage cross converts over to 1080 fairly painlessly, so you don't have much to worry about in that regard.

Steve Mullen May 31st, 2006 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dennis Stevens

If you shoot something in 720P (like with the HD100), can it be shown on HD network - which I believe has a standard of 1080i?

Do you mean "HDnet?"

Dennis Stevens May 31st, 2006 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Mullen
Do you mean "HDnet?"

No, not specifically. Like Stephan suggested any of HD channel, HD discovery, whoever.

Jemore Santos May 31st, 2006 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
Most networks such as FOX, ABC, ESPN and others use 720. It's only a few networks like NBC and CBS that use 1080. 720 footage cross converts over to 1080 fairly painlessly, so you don't have much to worry about in that regard.

Is ABC, FOX and ESP using 720p30 or 720p60?

Which is the industry standard for 720p? 30 or 60 frames?

Diogo Athouguia May 31st, 2006 09:40 PM

60 frames is the standard, 50 frames in europe.

Stephan Ahonen May 31st, 2006 09:52 PM

It's 60p. 30p doesn't have nearly enough temporal resolution, especially for sports broadcasting. They also have to downconvert for SD, so they have to match the refresh rate. One HD frame turns into one SD field. It's also for the sake of their 24p content in dramatic programming. It's very difficult to run a TV station with several different frame rates flying around, you need to be able to intercut everything. So they pull the 24p down over 60p.

Jemore Santos May 31st, 2006 10:07 PM

I wonder why JVC/Victor just didn't produce a 60p camera in the first place then if they knew the standard was 60p?

Stephan Ahonen May 31st, 2006 11:15 PM

The HD100 is a 60p camera. The chip scans at 60p, and you can see it coming out of the analog component outputs. It's just that at the time the camera was released, they didn't have the technology necessary to compress 60p to HDV in real time, so you can only do 30p to tape. They've since developed that technology for the HD200.

Bob Diesso June 1st, 2006 04:56 AM

720P for broadcast
 
Here's what ABC says: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2006/nab/presskit/1_abc.html

Andrew Young, who I met at NAB, shot a doc in Madagascar for National Geographic using the HD100 and Rodney Charters who was also at NAB uses the HD100 shooting "24", according to the JVC presentation. I think there's a clip on JVC's web site where Charters appears.

Lastly, I learned somewhere the A&E series "Inked" is shot using the HD100 from the second season (second season starts this week).

Hope this helps.

Dennis Stevens June 1st, 2006 07:53 AM

So Andrew Young, the folks at '24', et al, they must have recorded at 60p? If they couldn't use dv tape, then they used.... direct to a disk drive?

Bob Diesso June 1st, 2006 08:26 PM

Unless I'm mistaken, material recorded at 24P or 30P is played out at a 60P cadence. Similar to the way in which film shot at 24 frames per second is viewed on broadcast television. Others here may be better equipped with technical detail.

Jemore Santos June 1st, 2006 08:53 PM

So the HD100 is using 30p in a 60p wrapper with pulldown?

Tim Dashwood June 1st, 2006 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Diesso
Here's what ABC says: http://pro.jvc.com/pro/pr/2006/nab/presskit/1_abc.html
Rodney Charters who was also at NAB uses the HD100 shooting "24", according to the JVC presentation.

Sorry, you have your facts wrong. We don't want to perpetuate misinformation.

Rodney Charter tested all of the sub-$10000 HD cameras on the CTU set of 24. As far as I know, he did not shoot anything on the HD100 that was used in season 5 of 24.

However, he does absolutely love the HD100 and plans to purchase one for himself.
I saw Rodney a couple times last week, and specifically discussed the camera and his intentions for it. He told me that he wants to explore the possiblity of using it for BG plates as well as very long lens stuff next season.
Rodney is using a HD100 as a B-Cam for a film he started shooting this week in Toronto on Panavision's Genesis. When I consulted with him the goal was to match the Genesis fairly closely as far as black stretch and knee (even though the Genesis has WAY more latitude.) I think Rodney decided on Black stretch 2 and a 80% knee, but I report back when I find out how his shoot went.


You can read more about Rodney's tests on the Showreel magazine website.
http://www.showreel.org/memberarea/article.php?141

Tim Dashwood June 1st, 2006 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Diesso
Unless I'm mistaken, material recorded at 24P or 30P is played out at a 60P cadence. Similar to the way in which film shot at 24 frames per second is viewed on broadcast television. Others here may be better equipped with technical detail.

Correct. The standard format is 720P60. So for example, Lost or Desperate Housewives are both shot 24fps on 35mm film. They are transferred at 23.98P to HD masters, then the stream is broadcast on ABC in 720P60, but it is 24P in a 2:3 pulldown - exactly the way the HD100 handles 24P.


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