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Old June 22nd, 2006, 04:02 AM   #1
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No image stablisation??

I've totally missed this one!! I can live with manual focus, but can I live without image stablisation!

I want to shoot indie films, mostly using a tripod, so it isn't a factor in this case.

I also want to shoot weddings. This is where I have a problem. I don't want the restriction of a tripod (except perhaps during the ceremony). My shooting style is definitly not shoulder mounted eye level stuff only - its low, its high, its swooping in, its angled - and it needs to be smooth!!

Can I do this without investing in a cumbersome rig system?

I'm seriously tempted to change my order to a HVX200, which has I believe image stablisation. HD at the present time is not an issue, so the P2 issue doesn't bother me.

Your input is needed. I've ordered a HD100, but now I'm not sure.

Thanks


Andrew
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 04:29 AM   #2
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The JVC seems to have enough weight and is well enough balanced to take smooth handheld shots taken from more extreme angles. However, you won't be able to hold it over your head with a long lens and have stable shots.

If you're used to shooting MiniDV the way you handle the camera changes, but you can shoot off the shoulder with the HD 100. However, you also need to practise using it, so you're relaxed and handling the camera with a light touch.

You need image stabilizers on the MiniDv cameras because they're so light.
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 04:40 AM   #3
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I honestly think going with the Panasonic is not the way to go money wise... ONE 8gig P2 card is $1,500 and you only get 8 MINUTES of dvcpro HD recording time!!!!!!!!!!! thats just ridiculous... Now i know you are not worried about HD, but then why would you be buying that camera in the first place??? unless at some point in time you are going to stat shooting in HD and then you are still going to have to put thousands more into media.

It sounds like you are better of with something like a AG-DVX100B.

If you have the money to spend and buy a bunch of 8 gig p2 cards, and the camera itself, I would invest it into a better camera system like the sony HD-XDCAM 330 ($22,000 with lens) anyway.

It really does come down to what you are going to mainly use the camera for... if you make money all the time by shooting weddings and you NEED stabilization, then i would look around for another type of camera, or get a stedicam. If you will only be shooting 3 weddings a year... i say learn to shoot shoulder mounted then and dont worry about it.

I really believe this camera is NOT for wedding work at all...especially the kind that you are talking about with swooping movements (that just screams steadicam to me, remember the whole reason why people want this camera is because its 24pHD and you cant really swoop much in 24p without making someone sick or go into an epileptic shock due to the strobbing that will happen). This camera is not for shooting in low light conditions where you have to push the gain either.

This camera is really MADE for serious independent filmmakers and we donít use stabilizers because it degrades the picture quality, and we dont use autofocus because its not accurate or fast. For the same price you can get a NON-HD camera that will do everything you want... but as far as HD goes if you are looking for HD 24p thereís no better place than the JVC at this price range.

So its really a matter of what are you really going to use this camera for the most. even a swiss army knife has some features that just arenít there... So ask yourself... what are you really going to use this for the most?
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 04:45 AM   #4
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I think I will adapt to it with practice. I know that 24/25p will not allow fast movement so my style will have to adapt. I'm probably panicing about nothing.

Is there a rig that would give me more places to hold the camera, other than the handle on the camera body.

Something like the Red camera with its x-wing type attachment?

http://www.red.com/product/accessories/cages/

Thanks


Andrew
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 04:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Pugliese
I honestly think going with the Panasonic is not the way to go money wise... ONE 8gig P2 card is $1,500 and you only get 8 MINUTES of dvcpro HD recording time!!!!!!!!!!! thats just ridiculous... Now i know you are not worried about HD, but then why would you be buying that camera in the first place??? unless at some point in time you are going to stat shooting in HD and then you are still going to have to put thousands more into media.

It sounds like you are better of with something like a AG-DVX100B.

I really believe this camera is NOT for wedding work at all...especially the kind that you are talking about with swooping movements
My main reason for buying this camera is for indie film making.

I'm still geting my head around the whole 24/35p and fast movement thing. I think as I said above, I will adapt my shooting style to this format. I'll leave the swooping out!! Slow pans will be the order of the day.

I've discounted SD cameras, as HD is what I want to use for indie films, so the DVX is out. P2 is just too expensive for me so the HVX is out.

Thanks


Andrew
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 05:14 AM   #6
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if you are using this for indie film making then you will be very happy. If you know how to use this camera, its like a big brick of gold that you just paid a dollar for.

I think its a panic over nothing too, just relax... breath, and when that big box comes you will be happy as hell and want to shoot until you have no more things to shoot... then you will just start shooting things you donít need to shoot... like a tour of your house... haha.
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 05:24 AM   #7
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You should check out the Texas shoot out on DV.com. It compares all four prosumer cameras - one test addresses your concerns.

Regarding swoops, it's a matter of the timing of the move so that you don't get strobing effects (unless, that's the effect you want).
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 05:28 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Pugliese
I think its a panic over nothing too, just relax... breath, and when that big box comes you will be happy as hell and want to shoot until you have no more things to shoot... then you will just start shooting things you don’t need to shoot... like a tour of your house... haha.
Giuseppe

Very good... my dog is currently taking acting lessons!!

Thanks for your patience. The old nerves began to tingle when I handed 5 grand over yesterday!!

Thanks Brian, I'll have a look.

Andrew
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 05:33 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale
Regarding swoops, it's a matter of the timing of the move so that you don't get strobing effects (unless, that's the effect you want).
yes thatís right, to add to that, when you are going to do a "swoop" or fast movement, make sure that the subject stays in the relative same spot in frame when you make the move, that will allow you to make much faster movements than if you just swoosh the camera to a low angle but the whole frame of everything moved... thatís when you get the strobing effect.... youíll be fine.
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 05:40 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giuseppe Pugliese
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale
Regarding swoops, it's a matter of the timing of the move so that you don't get strobing effects (unless, that's the effect you want).

yes thatís right, to add to that, when you are going to do a "swoop" or fast movement, make sure that the subject stays in the relative same spot in frame when you make the move, that will allow you to make much faster movements than if you just swoosh the camera to a low angle but the whole frame of everything moved... thatís when you get the strobing effect.... youíll be fine.
Thanks for the tips. Can you see the strobing/flaking/tearing in the LCD or EVF? Or does it only show up in post?
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 07:31 AM   #11
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I never used image stabilisation, because it degrades the image, but doesn't do enough to warrant it's use.

What I need, is a built in gyro stabiliser, because I tend to sway like a palm tree!
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 08:13 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Forman
I never used image stabilisation, because it degrades the image, but doesn't do enough to warrant it's use.

What I need, is a built in gyro stabiliser, because I tend to sway like a palm tree!
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 08:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Drysdale
You should check out the Texas shoot out on DV.com. It compares all four prosumer cameras - one test addresses your concerns.

Regarding swoops, it's a matter of the timing of the move so that you don't get strobing effects (unless, that's the effect you want).
I just read the Texas Shootout. Again the same conclusions are drawn. No camera wins with everything, but I would still choose the JVC.

Handheld, in this test, the JVC won on image stabilization. You should read the whole thing, it is interesting. If you plan to do weddings, stay away from the HVX unless you have a lot of cash. Then again, you say HD is not an issue, so why not get a DVX100B?
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 08:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Benner
Handheld, in this test, the JVC won on image stabilization. You should read the whole thing, it is interesting.
To be fair, the actual quote from the article said:
Quote:
...with the JVC capturing the smoothest moves despite its lack of image stabilization. The HVR-Z1 did very well for a handheld. Sony's excellent optical Steadyshot soaked up whatever tremors the operators imparted to the camera.
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Old June 22nd, 2006, 09:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Benner
If you plan to do weddings, stay away from the HVX unless you have a lot of cash. Then again, you say HD is not an issue, so why not get a DVX100B?
I meant HD is not an issue for me in weddings which can be shot in SD - not my main reason for buying this camera. I want HD for indie film making, my main reason for buying this camera, 'cause you just never know....

Either way P2 is not practical for me, especially when the first film i'm working on is located in a derelict factory and some very romote spots in Ireland with no power and mud - lots of mud...

Regards


Andrew
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