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Old June 22nd, 2006, 11:47 PM   #1
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Workflow for event - venue shooting

Has anyone used the HD100 for concert events, large venue shooting, and what was the final workflow? I have seen a few mixed threads started on this but nothing defined. I'm trying to get my noodle around my options and general considerations when shooting for a post production workflow, this would not be for a live feed.

I'm also curious on...
- what method of time code should I consider, since genlock is not an option on our current JVC? Date/time stamp time code or look for a stage marker, or...?
- How would you tackle the audio portion of the shoot, (off the board, auxiliary mic to DAT, etc., or a stereo setup on one of the forward stationary cameras - scary thought).
- If shooting with 2-3 cameras what would be a good scenario, (two locked down, one up close, one back & wide, with the third roaming, etc.) Ideas on locations and overall positioning is appreciated.
- What headset might be worth investing in for occasional communication between camera operators for best coverage... if any such device actually is worth the $$, I understand it's ify. For now I'm just looking for communication between camera ops but what is the possibility that a "reference" video feed could be wireless to a video village and shoot coordinator?

Open for discussion and ideas from everyone. Workflows that have been proven with this camera are especially appreciated.

Thanks in advance.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 01:18 AM   #2
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Daniel...

I made my living doing multicamera DV/post edit shoots for a number of years. Specifically, I've done 2 multicam shoots with the HD100, and about 15 with the DVX-100 (up to 9 cameras!). Here's what I can tell you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Patton
what method of time code should I consider, since genlock is not an option on our current JVC? Date/time stamp time code or look for a stage marker, or...?
Free-run timecode would SEEM like the hot-ticket, so you would have an easier time syncing cameras, but it's not so in HDV. Free run causes even more broken clips and problems for FCP (you're FCP, right? I forget).

Also, digitizing native HDV 30p in FCP has problems right now with broken clips, as you might know. Stick with AIC.

As far as your original Q, how can you make things easier to sync...I have to tell you, for all the discussion that goes on about this on message boards, I NEVER have any problem syncing multiple cameras in just a few minutes using onboard camera audio. Just as long as your operators do not break the roll during the event, things stay easy.

I know it sounds daunting just syncing cameras by eye and audio, but I've seen first-timers go to a lot of trouble and expense (renting TC slates to put on stage, etc) and still have loads of problems because they were so busy trying to make sure their 'system' worked that they forgot to do simple stuff like make sure all the cameras didn't break roll or had audio. Just make sure every camera has it's own audio reference and you'll be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Patton
How would you tackle the audio portion of the shoot, (off the board, auxiliary mic to DAT, etc., or a stereo setup on one of the forward stationary cameras - scary thought).
This is purely a budget issue. Here's some options:

1-Mono board mix routed to one camera channel, then a good cardioid room mic in the other channel. Blend the two to taste in edit. Board mixes often sound better than a room mic, but usually are not "great", because what sounds good through the PA isn't what sounds good to tape. Mixing that with a good room mic helps.

2-Stereo board mix to separate recording, to sync in the edit. Same issue as above.

3-8 track recording of sound board subgroups. This is a half-assed way of multi-tracking. Requires a post-mixdown in ProTools or whatever, then syncing in the edit. Can be done for around $2500 most likely.

4-Full multitrack to Alesis HD24 or Protools. Same as above but with much more control. Pricing is about the same, requires more care and gear from recordist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Patton
If shooting with 2-3 cameras what would be a good scenario, (two locked down, one up close, one back & wide, with the third roaming, etc.) Ideas on locations and overall positioning is appreciated.
This is totally to taste, but I will opine that locked down cameras on a 3 camera shoot will be way too static. If you have 3 cameras that are doing a little bit of everything, those 3 can make it look like you maybe have 5. I'd suggest maybe one wide that goes from 2 different flavors of wide, and then the other 2 handheld (if the subject warrants HH)...otherwise assign them a wide variety of possible shots.

I'd recommend against playing "zone defense" with those two cameras, where each is tightly assigned to 1 or 2 subjects. It tends to make your 3 camera shoot look like it's exactly 3 cameras because you won't have a wide variety of shots in the edit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Patton
What headset might be worth investing in for occasional communication between camera operators for best coverage... if any such device actually is worth the $$, I understand it's ify. For now I'm just looking for communication between camera ops but what is the possibility that a "reference" video feed could be wireless to a video village and shoot coordinator?
Headset selection for this stuff depends on the subject...if it's a real loud rock show things can get troublesome because hardly any of those things are built to be heard over 120db noise.

I've rented Motorola production radios with the IN-EAR ear buds and have had very good luck. The lightweight headsets they make for those might work for quieter events, but my experience is that the cam ops don't like to wear them, and thus never have them on when you'd like them to. They also don't appreciate looking like they could take your Happy Meal order while in public.

I'd recommend against wireless video unless you can afford to rent a top level wireless system. Or there's no other way to get the signal because of camera placement. Don't even think of using a cheap wireless system from Radio Shack or anything. It might work during setup during the day, but I've had those things cause more grief (many years ago) than I'd like to admit.
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Old June 23rd, 2006, 01:54 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Patton
I'm also curious on...
- what method of time code should I consider, since genlock is not an option on our current JVC? Date/time stamp time code or look for a stage marker, or...?
.
Regen the camera's and then sync from a visual or audio cue.

.
Quote:
- How would you tackle the audio portion of the shoot, (off the board, auxiliary mic to DAT, etc., or a stereo setup on one of the forward stationary cameras - scary thought).
.
We tackle it with a mobile DAW. Our's is an XP machine with Sonar4 and an Edirol UA-101 connected via snake directly to the mixers discrete channels (up to 10). That should cover any band even with fully mic'd drums unless your going after orchestral. You're looking at $3000 for that setup. Or you could hire out the job to someone who owns a mobile setup. In the end all you need are the files to give to your audio guy in house.
Quote:
- If shooting with 2-3 cameras what would be a good scenario, (two locked down, one up close, one back & wide, with the third roaming, etc.) Ideas on locations and overall positioning is appreciated.
In a 3 camera scenario a wide, stage left and stage right/center roamer is a good scenario. Usually the guy locked down on stage left should be able to get mobile if needed or if the stage is big enough to put his rig on a dolly you can get nice sliding moves. We've setup the rear camera on rails occasionally to put that camera in motion. All of the movements need rehersal.
Quote:
- What headset might be worth investing in for occasional communication between camera operators for best coverage... if any such device actually is worth the $$, I understand it's ify. For now I'm just looking for communication between camera ops but what is the possibility that a "reference" video feed could be wireless to a video village and shoot coordinator?
How big is the venue? Is it too big for hand signals? A good scenario is a rehersal with the band. Two way communication is relatively cheap but three way get's pricy.

Quote:
Open for discussion and ideas from everyone. Workflows that have been proven with this camera are especially appreciated..
Our Liquid system and Media Composer has multicam. The Liquid system supports 16 camera edits within it's multicam applet but you can have more on the timeline if you wish and the max exponent would be 16 per multicam edit (ie 16 or 32 or 48 etc). Also, since you're at it you may as well mix the tracks in 5.1 surround which Liquid does with Dolby Digital creator built into the app. The max multicam I've personally done with the HD-100 and the Liquid workflow is 3 camera so far. I've experimented with more camera feeds but for paying jobs the max has been 3 camera's so far with the HD-100.

Quote:
Thanks in advance.
Good luck Daniel and remember, Audio is KING and the video just supports it.
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