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Old July 1st, 2006, 01:10 PM   #1
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Shoot music vid in PAL or NTSC? + Glidecam

Y'ello!

I am shooting a video in Atlanta with a HD101 in a couple of weeks. I can't decide what frame rate to shoot it on. I want to shoot it in a way so that it can be converted swiftly to the other format, so the video can fit the format standards of both the US (NTSC) and Norway (PAL). I thought it would be better to shoot 30/60 and cut frames, rather than the opposite. But then again 24p will give a better filmic look. I did test shooting 24p and converted it to 25p, but but the way I converted, showed strobing/ghosting in movements.

Should I shoot 30/60 or 25/50? Anyone with any great ideas or experience? Anyone tried working with 24p, but for PAL output to tape?

Also: anyone in the Atlanta region who can rent me a handheld glidecam for 1/2 days (for the HD100)?

- Nima
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Old July 1st, 2006, 04:58 PM   #2
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Shoot 24, then speed it up to 25 for PAL. That's what they do for movies. Downside: Your total running length will be 4% shorter, and audio will increase in pitch by one whole step.
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Old July 1st, 2006, 05:45 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
Downside: Your total running length will be 4% shorter, and audio will increase in pitch by one whole step.
Stephan

In that case, I guess I could convert all clips that I used for the finished 24p video, to 25p _before_ editing it on a 25p timeline and then work on the sync with the original sound track on the new 25p timeline?
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Old July 1st, 2006, 06:29 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima Taheri
Stephan

In that case, I guess I could convert all clips that I used for the finished 24p video, to 25p _before_ editing it on a 25p timeline and then work on the sync with the original sound track on the new 25p timeline?
Regarding the audio, if you speed up the whole video from 24fps to 25fps, which would also speed up the audio and raise the pitch, it would be very easy to lower the pitch to where it was before the speed up (and keeping the same synch) by using a program like Adobe Audition or even the free Audacity.

I would also like to know what the standard procedure is for music videos shot on video. Are they usually shot in NTSC or PAL, and what are the advantages of each for dual format release? How is the audio normally handled for these videos?
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Old July 1st, 2006, 06:33 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
Regarding the audio, if you speed up the whole video from 24fps to 25fps, which would also speed up the audio and raise the pitch, it would be very easy to lower the pitch to where it was before the speed up (and keeping the same synch) by using a program like Adobe Audition or even the free Audacity.

I would also like to know what the standard procedure is for music videos shot on video. Are they usually shot in NTSC or PAL, and what are the advantages of each for dual format release? How is the audio normally handled for these videos?
Also, if you shoot 24, change the shutter to 1/48 or just experament with the shutter.
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Old July 1st, 2006, 07:07 PM   #6
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The problem with pitch shifting the audio for PAL is that the pitch shifting algorithms in low-end software like Audition or Audacity are pretty bad, and the best pitch shifting algorithms only really shine on individual voices or instruments rather than an entire mix. The main issue is formants. The resonant frequency of an "oo" vowel, for example, doesn't change no matter how high or low the voice is voicing it, so if the formant gets shifted the result will sound unnatural. A good algorithm will shift the voice while making sure the formant stays at the same frequency.

God, I'm such a geek.

The idea of producing a separate PAL cut is interesting. If you have a lot of edits (well, it IS a music video =D) you can probably just take your NTSC cut and add a couple frames to the beginning and end of each clip. I'd worry about lip sync issues in longer cuts, though, and I'd definitely do a couple experiments first before you go ahead and decide to do it this way only to have it turn into a complete disaster later.
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Old July 1st, 2006, 09:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
Regarding the audio, if you speed up the whole video from 24fps to 25fps, which would also speed up the audio and raise the pitch, it would be very easy to lower the pitch to where it was before the speed up (and keeping the same synch) by using a program like Adobe Audition or even the free Audacity.
Jack:
If I do any conversion, it will only be to the video track, i'm not really worried about the audio, because I will probably have to edit the timeline with the converted footage. In that way I can add the audio track at its original state, not pitched or altered. But thanks for the tip though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
The idea of producing a separate PAL cut is interesting. If you have a lot of edits (well, it IS a music video =D) you can probably just take your NTSC cut and add a couple frames to the beginning and end of each clip. I'd worry about lip sync issues in longer cuts, though, and I'd definitely do a couple experiments first before you go ahead and decide to do it this way only to have it turn into a complete disaster later.
Stephan:

yeah, I actually thought of that too, but like you say, the lip sync might be off on longer cuts. Not to mention the rappers/singers not being 100% accurate during playbacks. That's why I'm thinking that I will have to either expand-trim the cuts, or just redit the whole timeline with the converted footage and the original audio track.

The reason for dual formats, is that so I can deliver the product to the client, but also be able to broadcast the video elsewhere if that option would be there. If the end product would be dvd, then it wouldn't really matter, but since it will be on tape, then it's another story.

PS: Anybody know somewhere I can rent a handheld glidecam in Atlanta?
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Old July 1st, 2006, 09:53 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Ahonen
The problem with pitch shifting the audio for PAL is that the pitch shifting algorithms in low-end software like Audition or Audacity are pretty bad, and the best pitch shifting algorithms only really shine on individual voices or instruments rather than an entire mix. A good algorithm will shift the voice while making sure the formant stays at the same frequency.
What are some high end programs for pitch shifting?
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