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Old July 8th, 2006, 10:33 PM   #1
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Do you use an external sound recorder with your HD100?

If so, have you found the HD100 sound recording insufficient?

How do you sync with your video. To sync with a device like the Edirol R-4 Pro (http://www.edirol.com/products/r4pro/index.html) do you need an HD250?

Thanks,

David

P.S.
Editrol charges $800 more for timecode...if the HD250 is required, JVC charges $2000 more.
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Old July 9th, 2006, 03:33 PM   #2
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Not directly related to the HD100, I often use a second recorder (Microtrack) and a third recorder (extra video camera) to record sound.

To synch them I do it the old fashioned way -- clapboard (or a flash if I have matching video).

I have noticed that all the recorders, Sound Devices, Edirol, Tascam charge a large extra sum to be able to synch timecode. Since this is a universal increase in cost, I believe the parts must be expensive that do it.

I think the Edirol is about the cheapest from what I saw... 4 tracks and I saw the timecode version for only $500 more. The Tascam is only two tracks and needs an addition $1000 (about) unit to synch time code. The Sound Devices recorders are considerably more -- Here is a link to the recorders: http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm

(I use a Sound Devices mixer, and if you want superb quality and features in the mid price range, I highly recommend them.)

It appears that one of the features of the HD250 over the other cameras is timecode synch. In general, no matter what camera, sound recorder, vtr -- timecode synch seems to be a significant step up in cost of equipment for the low, low budget operation.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 09:44 AM   #3
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On the last film I shot the sound recordist insisted on recording 4-track (boom + lavs) to his hard disk recorder. He sent a rough split-track mix to the HD100 via XLR cables.
We synchronized the HD100 and sound recorder to "time-of-day" free run every morning ("3-2-1-Go" method) to make it easier on the assistant who would be syncing the dailies. The sound recorder automatically labelled its files with date and time. We used a dumb slate because the the sound recorder we had didn't have TC out capability.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 10:11 AM   #4
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Using Premier I tend to match the wave forms to synch the separate sound. I was hoping that timecode would make it easier and more accurate.

The Marantz 2-channel recorder to CF memory had caught my eye a while ago. However, when I saw the Edirol R-4 it looked so mutch better. And now it has timecode (albeit for $800 more). It just seems that it will require another $2k for an HD250 to make it work. The cost of two very good mikes.

Maybe I shouldn't complain about this too much; it isn't even possible with the HVX200.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 10:35 AM   #5
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I just got a Roland 8 track mixer/recorder to use in conjunction with the HD100, but haven't used it yet. I still need cables for it. However, if possible, I would want to run an audio out from the cam to a track on the recorder. This way, you will be recording live from the cam and your other sources, helping to sync up.

But, if you don't have that luxury, I also look for a landmark, such as a flash to sync the video, and do the same with audio- find a sound that stands out, like mic feedback. Locate the same sound on your secondary sources, and match the peaks. Tedious for sure, but it does work.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 12:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Ziegelheim
It just seems that it will require another $2k for an HD250 to make it work. The cost of two very good mikes.
If I'm not mistaken, the increase in price is considerably higher than $2000 since the HD250 does not come with a lens. The price of the lens must be added on.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 12:53 PM   #7
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I wasn't aware of that...it was clear from the press release and I didn't go to any shows this year.

The 16x lens is probably not that expensive...less than $1500...however, yet another expense.

Are their any other good lenses for these camera's coming out...something more in the $2500-3000 range rather than the $8-10k range?
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Old July 10th, 2006, 01:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Walker
Not directly related to the HD100, I often use a second recorder (Microtrack) and a third recorder (extra video camera) to record sound.
I have a Microtrack, but haven't used it for sync sound yet. How did you set it up for this? (Mics, boom, batteries...). I put a 1 gig card in mine to record up to 28hrs of stereo at 16bit 48khz MP3 at max bit rate (350kbs). I haven't hookd anything external yet (I've been using the small stereo mic that comes with it). Plus any power options to extend recording time you know about would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance
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Old July 10th, 2006, 07:36 PM   #9
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The Microtrack will take virtually any kind of mic, including phantom powered mics, since it has phantom power (though some mics may not work if they require a full 48v since it seems the Mircrotrack puts out around 32 volts according to some).

There is a plug for a miniplug mic as used on the FX1 for example. And there are two 1/4" balanced inputs for pro mics. With a pro mic it is necessary to use a cable that goes from XLR to 1/4" TRS male.

If the battery isn't enough you can either plug the Microtrack into a regular power cord using the supplied cable. Or you can plug the Microtrack into a computer USB port for power, again using the supplied cable. I don't know if there is a little battery operated unit that would supply USB power.

For synch, I just use the old fashioned methods of hand synching to a track in the camera.

The Microtrack is a basic recorder, but it produces high quality results in wav, mp3 (different qualities), etc.

I have a 6 gibagyte microdrive I use in the Microtrack that gives several hours of 16/48 wav audio.

The last time I used it with the camera I recorded the board audio for a dancing show. I then synched the music with the audio recorded into the camera. The Microtrack also works great for wild lines, sound effects, quick interviews or on location narration that doesn't have to synch with the picture. The thing is so small and light that it seems incredible it gets the quality it does and takes professional microphones.

The unit also records 24/96 audio which can be good for these uses.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 09:13 PM   #10
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Thanks, I was aware of the usb and ac power options. I was hoping to find somethng like a portable battery option that would let it record several hours without recharge. Thats why I didn't go for one of the microdrives yet.
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Old July 10th, 2006, 09:45 PM   #11
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Here you go! Here's a portable charger:
http://www.instructables.com/id/EGBQJPLCB2EP287KTZ/

Here is a commercial version of one:
http://www.semsons.com/unbaexwiusbp.html

Here's a battery powered hub that may work:
http://www.radioshack.com/sm-cyberpo...i-2259675.html
Another link:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...lance&n=172282

Here's instructions to make one:
http://www.mouldy.org/projects/Batte...d-Charge-Cable

Added 11-July-2006 -- Here's a couple of kits to buy:
http://www.aarondunlap.com/?content=...ryrefresh=true

There must be a good commercial product. Maybe someone knows which?

Last edited by Jack Walker; July 11th, 2006 at 01:24 PM.
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Old July 11th, 2006, 12:41 PM   #12
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Thanks Jack, interesting links.
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Old July 12th, 2006, 10:52 AM   #13
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We've been using our HD100 with a Sound Devices 722. Run outputs from the 722 to the HD100 so there is some sound on the tape and sync with a regular old slate. I can't imagine shooting narrative style things WITHOUT a slate, even if you aren't doing double system sound. Sorting through all those clips with no in-video labeling?
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Old July 12th, 2006, 08:32 PM   #14
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Keith Sir, if you're out there - any concerns with the unit you intend to use for recording keeping pace with 24p? I have a 16 channel Roland I intend to implement, well actually shot with it this weekend...MKH-416 to the mixer/recorder - out to the camera/tape for backup, will this sync if shot 24p? Haven't captured anything yet..
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Old July 12th, 2006, 09:22 PM   #15
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Michael- I haven't done much with 24p at all, still working on getting 60p/30p down. And, like I said, I also haven't done anything with the Roland either. I have new hardware, new software, new camera, and a new format I'm learning at once.
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