HD100 and Green Screen at DVinfo.net

Steve Benner · July 18th, 2006, 09:37 AM

I have been trying out the my HD100 and Green Screen. I cannot use the componet outs because of money, so please no suggestions about that.

I am trying some simple Chroma keying with my Golden Retriever for tests in Final Cut Pro. The edges do no go over well, and there is spill (I amaging this is due to bad and juvenille lighting). I think I remember people saying that FCP cannot pull mattes well anyway.

If I get Shake now that it is so cheep, will it pull mattes better even though the HD100 is 4:2:0 or will it be the same?

Also, I am really new to the whole keying thing, so any suggesstions on what settings I can have with the HD100 will help. I am using Paolo's True Color 3 currently. I have the Detail set very low, should I set it very high so the edges get much sharper?

Warren Shultz · July 18th, 2006, 10:32 AM

Pulling keys off the HD100 can be a challenge but actually less so than with DV.

Make sure you stay in progressive mode.

If you are shooting outside in the sun, consider blue screen. That way you aren't fighting blue contamination of the green. The advantage of outside is the naturally even lighting.

If you're inside, get that screen as evenly lit as possible and then mask it to as small an area as possible in Shake, After Effects, or FCP before pulling the key.

I've seen some pretty good improvements using Graham Nattresses' filters in FCP to "reconstruct" the chroma sampling which I then export to AE or Shake. Others get decent results with Serious Magic's Ultra.

As far as Shake goes, you can get much better keys IF you know how to manipulate the power of Shake. There's a lot of power under that hood but you won't automatically get better keys just using presets.

Good luck!

Steve Benner · July 18th, 2006, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Shultz

Good luck!

Thanks, I am going to need it...I think I may try to learn Shake.

Trevor Allin · July 18th, 2006, 02:01 PM

Hi Steve

I Pull amazing keys with the HD100 using serious magic's Ultra 2. For my money I would buy this, you will never look back!

It is also incredibly simple and leaves fcp standing!

www.seriousmagic.com

Trevor

Tim Gray · July 18th, 2006, 03:53 PM

I recently purchased shake after the price drop. I had some bad (homemade) green screen footage that I played around with in FCP, Motion, and Shake. Here's my thoughts:

FCP did an ok job. You set the color you key out and that's about it. It has a 4 and 8 point garbage matte to help a little bit, and you can smooth the chroma.

Motion has a Primatte filter which was ok as well. A bit more adjustability, but didn't let you pull great keys. The matte drawing tool was infinitely better, so you could make a much better garbage matte. Not sure if you could add a second mask as a holdout matte.

Shake on the other hand is SUPER flexible. I think you could probably pull a key on anything you had to with it... if you invest the time to building it. You can build up a mask using many different techniques (different types of keys, rotoshapes, painting). Really a powerful system if you learn it. However, I doubt its something you'd fire up, click a button, and get perfect keys. It does come with 2 fancy keying nodes, a chroma key node, and a luma key node. To me, Shake is the equivalent to Legos. You could build just about anything in it if you wanted to.

Doing a chroma smooth made things easier in all applications. Ditto with a garbage matte (and holdout matte if the app lets you do it).

Download the demo of Shake from apple and go through the tutorial included. The tutorial is about 8 lessons and was actually quite informative - about as informative as the Apple Pro Training Series book on shake.

Warren Shultz · July 18th, 2006, 04:18 PM

I just returned from the 4 day Shake course put on by Pixel Corps. Man I feel like I'm just scratching the surface. What a flexible and powerful program. With power comes responsibility (or is that ineptness?). We need a Shake section.

Tim Dashwood · July 18th, 2006, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warren Shultz

We need a Shake section.

"If you build it, they will come." Check out our new Digital Compositing and Effects forum for all your Shake questions.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=130

Steve Benner · July 18th, 2006, 05:59 PM

Cool, this section may help. Thanks!

Craig Roblewsky · July 18th, 2006, 06:03 PM

I will second Trevor's opinion about Ultra 2. Its a great tool for your video arsenal. Its quick and easy and the library of sets are quite useful.

- Craig

July 18th, 2006, 09:37 AM	#1
Steve Benner Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 590	HD100 and Green Screen I have been trying out the my HD100 and Green Screen. I cannot use the componet outs because of money, so please no suggestions about that. I am trying some simple Chroma keying with my Golden Retriever for tests in Final Cut Pro. The edges do no go over well, and there is spill (I amaging this is due to bad and juvenille lighting). I think I remember people saying that FCP cannot pull mattes well anyway. If I get Shake now that it is so cheep, will it pull mattes better even though the HD100 is 4:2:0 or will it be the same? Also, I am really new to the whole keying thing, so any suggesstions on what settings I can have with the HD100 will help. I am using Paolo's True Color 3 currently. I have the Detail set very low, should I set it very high so the edges get much sharper?

July 18th, 2006, 10:32 AM	#2
Warren Shultz Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 248	Pulling keys off the HD100 can be a challenge but actually less so than with DV. Make sure you stay in progressive mode. If you are shooting outside in the sun, consider blue screen. That way you aren't fighting blue contamination of the green. The advantage of outside is the naturally even lighting. If you're inside, get that screen as evenly lit as possible and then mask it to as small an area as possible in Shake, After Effects, or FCP before pulling the key. I've seen some pretty good improvements using Graham Nattresses' filters in FCP to "reconstruct" the chroma sampling which I then export to AE or Shake. Others get decent results with Serious Magic's Ultra. As far as Shake goes, you can get much better keys IF you know how to manipulate the power of Shake. There's a lot of power under that hood but you won't automatically get better keys just using presets. Good luck!

July 18th, 2006, 02:01 PM	#4
Trevor Allin Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 152	Hi Steve I Pull amazing keys with the HD100 using serious magic's Ultra 2. For my money I would buy this, you will never look back! It is also incredibly simple and leaves fcp standing! www.seriousmagic.com Trevor

July 18th, 2006, 03:53 PM	#5
Tim Gray Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Media, PA Posts: 144	I recently purchased shake after the price drop. I had some bad (homemade) green screen footage that I played around with in FCP, Motion, and Shake. Here's my thoughts: FCP did an ok job. You set the color you key out and that's about it. It has a 4 and 8 point garbage matte to help a little bit, and you can smooth the chroma. Motion has a Primatte filter which was ok as well. A bit more adjustability, but didn't let you pull great keys. The matte drawing tool was infinitely better, so you could make a much better garbage matte. Not sure if you could add a second mask as a holdout matte. Shake on the other hand is SUPER flexible. I think you could probably pull a key on anything you had to with it... if you invest the time to building it. You can build up a mask using many different techniques (different types of keys, rotoshapes, painting). Really a powerful system if you learn it. However, I doubt its something you'd fire up, click a button, and get perfect keys. It does come with 2 fancy keying nodes, a chroma key node, and a luma key node. To me, Shake is the equivalent to Legos. You could build just about anything in it if you wanted to. Doing a chroma smooth made things easier in all applications. Ditto with a garbage matte (and holdout matte if the app lets you do it). Download the demo of Shake from apple and go through the tutorial included. The tutorial is about 8 lessons and was actually quite informative - about as informative as the Apple Pro Training Series book on shake.

July 18th, 2006, 04:18 PM	#6
Warren Shultz Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 248	I just returned from the 4 day Shake course put on by Pixel Corps. Man I feel like I'm just scratching the surface. What a flexible and powerful program. With power comes responsibility (or is that ineptness?). We need a Shake section.

July 18th, 2006, 05:59 PM	#8
Steve Benner Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: United States Posts: 590	Cool, this section may help. Thanks!

July 18th, 2006, 06:03 PM	#9
Craig Roblewsky New Boot Join Date: May 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 24	I will second Trevor's opinion about Ultra 2. Its a great tool for your video arsenal. Its quick and easy and the library of sets are quite useful. - Craig